Mandolin to Fiddle

[johnrhaupert]

How hard/easy is it to learn the mandolin and then pick up the fiddle?

[halfamind]

Theory-wise, it seems to be a piece of cake, but...

I'm working on a web site design for a violin shop right now, and have a few around the house for photo props, and I'll tell ya... first, the scale is shorter, and unlike mando and twangbox, it's hard to just "pick it up" and make something resembling a musical tone... my cats are seriously irritated with me!

[soapycows]

The fiddle is all about the bowing, and the mandolin has nothing to do with the bow. So it's like starting over, but at least you know where the notes are (unless you cross tune).

[Rroyd]

Them durned frets kind of ruin a feller, plus a pick doesn't turn into a bow nearly as easy as a bow turns into a pick. Fiddlers seem to have a far easier time picking up the mandolin than mandolinists do trying to learn fiddle, and the two aforementioned factors seem to be the basis of that difficulty. It would be interesting to see what percentage of those players who are great on both started with fiddle, and how many started on mandolin.

[PaulD]

That's a great pic... is that going to be on the home page of the site you're designing?

If you search you'll find that this topic has been discussed at least once before. From personal experience I'll say that fiddle is the hardest thing I've tried to play, but playing mandolin first definately helped me. Now if I can get past the lack of frets and the funky pick thing the cats may actually move back into the neighborhood!

Seriously, though, I would say give it a shot but take some lessons to get proper bowing technique down from the get-go. For awhile I was learning new tunes on the mando due to familiarity and frets, then working on the bowing and intonation on the fiddle. Now I go straight to the fiddle if that's where I want the tune to end up.

Paul Doubek

[johnrhaupert]

Cool thanks for the info. I know that fiddle will be hard because my first instrument was double bass and that is the freaking hardest thing I have ever tried to play. I am just starting out on mandolin, so maybe I should just start with fiddle and then go to mando...

[olgraypat]

Agreed with all the above. Unfortunately, I'm an uncurable learner, so I've tried to take up the fiddle. (I'll never play the violin, I'm afraid.) But, you know it looked like fun, and so I thought what the hey..........I've been at it for a couple of weeks now, and as everyone else says, that there bowing is hard. I can now play three tunes that are basically transfers from my mando playing, but unfortunately they sound a lot like a sack full of cats to ost of the listening world. But, I believe I'm going to make it.

A word to the wise...as with everything else....don't buy a cheap fiddle. You can buy one on ebay for less than $30.00, including case, but you've got to get to a decent level before the darn thing will even stay in tune....

[JGWoods]

I heard Sam Bush say that when he learned the mandolin he learned in his house. When he went to learn the fiddle they sent him out behind the barn.

I found mandolin easier than fiddle when trying to learn. In 2-3 years I turned into a fair mandolin picker, but the same time frame on the fiddle has not made me suitable for public consumption. In both cases we're talking 1/2 to 1 hour a day, most days.

[farmerjones]

i started out on a fiddle. 2000 hours later i'm stil not much. But mandolin and fiddle compliment each other so well. At least with a fiddle you don't get MAS for an oval hole if you have F-holes and vise versa. Although, i never met a guy with just one fiddle. Just as well do both. Sure doesn't hurt when there's 5 mandolins at the jam. You can pick up the fiddle.

[Phil Jolly]

I've been playing the mandolin for about 3 and a half years now, and have picked up the fiddle in the last few months. The bowing is enough to drive you crazy, but I agree with PaulD, definitely get a few lessons to get at least an idea of what you should be doing with that wierd hairy stick.

[GBG]

If you don't really have a preference, I would start with the fiddle and at some point in time pick up on the mandolin. It will be an easier transition than going from mandolin to fiddle. Another excellent point about the typical jam session having 5 guitars, 3 mandolins, and no fiddler.

[earthsave]

I'd say it is much easier to learn fiddle and then transfer to Mandolin. But I have done neither. My nephew plays fiddle and he picked up mando pretty easily.

The fingerings would be the same but the bowing is a brand new animal.

[Seth Austen]

I played mandolin (and guitar) before fiddle, so found bowing to be the big challenge. I've taught mando to fiddlers though, and they all say they can't figure out how to use a pick either. I'd say if you want to play both, just do it, doesn't really matter what order you learn them in. I find that learning each instrument has benefits that transfer to playing the others.

Seth

[jim_n_virginia]

I played guitar for 30 years and pretty much got it all down, started on the mandolin about 8 years ago and consider myself a pretty decent intermediate player, I can't keep up with most people but still have a lot more to learn and....

I started fiddle lessons 4 months ago. I know a lot of fiddle tunes on the mandolin and I can pretty much play them all on the fiddle but...

...my tunes sound great on the mando but on the fiddle they sound pretty awful!

My teacher said it takes 2 weeks to play a tune on the fiddle but take 2 years to make it sond good!

The more I play the tune I get better at it but it is still sqaulky!

I know a lifelong fiddler (Classical and Bluegrass) and she has a hard time with the mandolin.

Personally I think it's about 50/50 on who can transition the easiest... fiddle or mandolin.

And also I personally think playing the fiddle is much harder myself.

[chuck.naill]

I started playing fiddle about six weeks ago.This is what I have learned.
1. Luthiers that are not fiddlers are not good resources for how a fiddle should be played.
2. The bow needs to be primed with rosin if new. Buy good dark rosin.
3. How the bow by the tip with two fingers and then bow. This is how much pressure is needed.
4. For fiddling there are many ways to how the bow. It is important to bow at a 90 degree angle to the strings
5. Buy a good Eastman fiddle, use Dominant strings
6. Figure on a good bow costing over $100
7. Do not touch the hair on your bow with your hands or fingers
8. Your teacher needs to be a BG or old time fiddler
9. Purchase a mute so you can practice anytime
10. Let the obcession take its course.

Chuck

[elenbrandt-redux]

I have recently begun taking strict classical violin lessons -- so far so good...but the real problem is that it is so hard to slooooowwww doowwwnn during those lessons after years of working to go fasties on the mando. Mandos and fiddles are really apples and oranges...but playing one seems to augment playing the other. Musical cross-training.

Now if only Hans Brentrup got into making violins too.....Ohhhh Hans......

(Oops, I think he just went into hiding....)

[Alex Fields]

I've been playing fiddle for over eight years and mandolin for only nine months. My practice habits on fiddle varied alot over that time: anywhere from not practicing at all for weeks to practicing for a few hours a day. I'd say overall I've probably averaged half an hour daily practice on fiddle...and, in the past nine months, about six hours a day on mando (would be more if it were for seven hours a day of high school and, recently, too much of a social life...heh). That's pretty close to being the same for each instrument in total hours. I can't play a fiddle in tune, though, and because I have no sense of bow direction I can't stay in time. I can play pretty good scottish fiddle and good rhythm fiddle (in in the style of Anger/Driessen), but overall my fiddle playing is ridiculously sloppy, which I'm okay with, but is interesting because I'm a stickler for technique on mandolin.

Picking and bowing are very different, both in theory and practice. I don't think it's easy going from either to the other. Probably it's easier going from fiddle to mando because there's not as much left hand adjustment needed due to frets (you're in for a shock if you're used to frets and expect to play a fiddle in tune).

I've found that good fiddles are cheaper than good mandolins. There are alot more factors affecting playability on mandolin: on fiddle you mostly just have to worry about how well pegs stick (for intonation) and how good it sounds. There are some great fiddles at local music stores here for like five hundred dollars. Good luck finding a mandolin of similar quality for that price. My fiddle, by the way, is a German instrument from around 1900...and one of the best instruments I've ever played. I only payed two grand for it but I've played maybe one other fiddle in my life that I thought sounded better--and that one my fiddle teacher bought for five hundred dollars. And I've played expensive fiddles...including an $80,000 instrument which didn't even compare to mine. That's the thing about fiddles--there's no consistency among the pricing. With mandolins you have brands and luthier that everyone knows, and it's fairly uncommon to find a great instrument from someone you've never heard of (if you really know your makers anyway). With fiddles it's rare to find one you have heard of. Price and quality aren' really move parallel.

As for jam sessions: I'm lucky in that there are a bunch of great musicians from the ETSU bluegrass program (only four year bluegrass program in the world :P) around here. There's an open mic coffeehouse downtown where jam sessions are spontaneously started all the time: I'm there just about every day. (Today I jammed with a friend who plays bluegrass and klezmer on banjo and a great flatpicking guitarist I'd never met before.) Because of ETSU there are numerous players of every instrument around. And actually one of the employees of said coffeehouse plays fiddle (and plays well), so there's pretty much always someone there to play fiddle. It's pretty common for a totally unplanned jam to start and all the main instruments (fiddle, mandolin, guitar, dobro, banjo) to be there--the only thing frequently missing is bass, but that's mostly just because they're hard to lug around, not because nobody plays.

Oh, last note: about fiddle strings, I use D'Addario. Helicore if you want bright and responsive, Zyex if you want dark and full tone (I use the latter).

[Stephen Perry]

Big stick, no frets, EZ!

Note that fiddle setup is usually different from violin setup. Call & chat about it if you like. I seem to do lots of fiddle consulting.