Loar Picture of the Day

**Darryl Wolfe** · Jan-30-2004, 9:51am

Jim, In my opinion it does not affect the market price of the instrument, particularly if it is properly removed, glued back together and remains with the instrument. I do not wish to go on record as recommending that other folks remove their Virzi, but if I owned the instrument..I would remove it for my own satisfaction.

**ethanopia** · Jan-30-2004, 11:47am

so fellas what are the odds of the heir to 76547 selling it?
Is that person a player? or just asomeone who inherited a sweet instrument?

not that I'm remotely interested mind you just an inquiring mind...

thanks
Ethan

**76547** · Jan-30-2004, 8:31pm

I am not willing to sell but would love to have someone play it on a recording. Ama slo trying to find a music house in Seattle that would be willing to display it for others to enjoy.

**Brier** · Jan-31-2004, 10:19am

Jack,
I'm building my 4th mando and would love to at lest see it and take pic's. I have some friends that are also building and if you are willing we would love to get together. I live 10 miles north. I also have an idea for display at a local store. e-mail me at res0tmvd@verzion.net.

Peter.

**Darryl Wolfe** · Jan-31-2004, 10:49am

Jack, I'm glad you jumped in there....I didn't want to handle that one

**danb** · Jan-31-2004, 10:56am

Hi Jack, and welcome to the Cafe. That's quite an amazing mandolin to find, and I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding folks who'd be happy to record with it. I'm starting pre-prodcution on my second mandolin record myself, so I'll wait by the mailbox over here

Thanks for letting me & Darryl use all those fine pictures at the Mandolin Archive web site too, it's been very popular, the record has been viewed over 5,000 times in the last week alone!

**keithd** · Jan-31-2004, 7:46pm

Hey Dan,

That's great news about your recording project; would you care to tease us with any details? Tunes...instruments...collaborators?

Keith

**76547** · Feb-01-2004, 7:15pm

Is there anyone in the Seattle area recording mando music in the near future?

**Glassweb** · Feb-01-2004, 9:55pm

Hello Jack - My name is Steven Brown and I'm a mandolinist living here in Seattle. Although I'm not recording at this moment, I do own a lovely, original "unsigned Loar" and would love to get a chance to "compare notes" as it were and go over these mandolins together. I've been playing on and off for over 30 years and am always excited to test drive these wonderful Loar instruments. Let me know if you'd like to get together and, of course, congratulations on becoming a caretaker for this exquisite mandolin.

**Brian Baker** · Feb-01-2004, 10:04pm

I looked at an old Gibson F-5 mandolin (owned by someone else) the other day that got me wondering about it being a Loar... (I don't have pictures)

First off, there were no labels. The owner just bought this mandolin recently, and was told that it had been in a flood many years back, and that the labels had come off... Sounded fishy, but the rest of the mando was interesting:

- Flowerpot, "The Gibson" (don't recall if it had the tit on the T or not)
- Dark burst, small area of brown in middle
- The finish showed some dull grey places that actually seemed like they could be water damage.
- On the back of the headstock, it appeared that the tuners were replacements. There were two drilled holes visible at at the end nearest the neck, below where the "new" tuners ended. They were about in the spot I would expect from looking at some of the early Loar pix on mandocafe. Also, you could see impressions in the finish of the previous tuners (with the fleur-de-lis or "arrow" looking shape at the ends).
- No black in the binding, just pure ivory colored (headstock and body)
- Looked like one-piece back, no flame to it...
- Seems to have been played for many years (lots of wear spots in the top finish, finish was sanded off neck, sounded great)
- Tailpiece cover was The Gibson, but not the Loar style with the little dots around the edge. Was brass-colored, as if original silver (?) had worn off...

This was all I remember... But my question is, without labels, is there any way to tell if this is a Loar? Do Loars have any engravings or stampings on the inside of the body? Did Loar sign the underside of the tops, or just the labels? Could I look in it for evidence of a removed Virzi? Given the wide variety among the Loars, how can I tell if this is an actual 20's era instrument, or a fake? Or something like a Randy Wood copy that has had the labels removed? Or maybe a late 20's post-Loar flowerpot F5?

Any help you can provide me would be great!

**76547** · Feb-01-2004, 10:54pm

Glassweb,

I would appreciate getting in touch with you. Kindly get me a phone number.

**Charlie Derrington** · Feb-01-2004, 10:56pm

About the best way would be to let Darryl, Tom, Steve G, Lynn, Frank R, me, or any number of experts look at it. Of course I can't be sure without looking, but it sounds wrong. (particularly the binding, but stranger things have happened).

Charlie

**Darryl Wolfe** · Feb-02-2004, 9:19pm

I agree with Charlie...post a picture and let us look. On the surface it does not sound authentic

**Ken Waltham** · Feb-02-2004, 10:55pm

My immediate impression on that one is a Randy Wood F12 conversion.
Single binding on the body says "F12".
Ken

**Brian Baker** · Feb-03-2004, 3:47am

Ken, Charlie, Darryl:

Thanks for your replies! You are all correct: very hard to say with no pictures... I will try and snap some digital pix if I can and keep you posted.

Just a couple quick questions about the areas that make me suspicious:
- I assume that "single bound" means no black stripe on the binding, just white. And if so, were there no Loars with single binding?
- The back seemed to be one-piece, but with no flame or curl... The burst was nice, but the wood looked kinda plain compared with most Loar pix I have seen...
- I would agree that even if water damaged, you would expect some remnants of the stickers. More likely that it is a copy and someone has removed THOSE labels ...

But the tuners have me puzzled. I saw imprints of the "arrow-style" tuners in the finish on the back of the headstock... What years were arrow-style tuners used on Gibson mandolins? Seems a lot of the '23s have them... If it is a 70s era copy or conversion, would the builder have used these? Perhaps an old Gibson neck on another body?

Thanks for your speculations... Again, I will try and provide some pictures if can get them.

Brian Baker

**f5loar** · Feb-03-2004, 6:24am

you seem to think it's a Loar but the owner does not? Or the owner just dosen't know. But making a comment that the labels fell out starts to raise the red flag. He may have bought it as a Loar as such and then found out it was not.
Where is that Loar FON under the Loar label? Where is the
penciled in serial number found on most Loars? How about the original case. The speculation it might be one can run high but a photo is worth a thousand words. Then again this may be one of those famous "unsigned" seconds Gibson made so many of during Loars time. Charlie and Darryl know all about these. Most seemed to have surfaced out west but none have been allowed to be officially documented by a 2nd opinon.

**Brian Baker** · Feb-03-2004, 10:02am

Tom:

Your comments are all true...the lack of labels and a case seem really fishy. I met this guy at a picking session, and he had just bought the mando recently, so he was telling me what he was told. He did not seem to know much about mandos, and I don't think he even knew what a Loar is. He was told it was a 1948 Gibson... Anyhow, I'll try and get in touch with him and get some pix up on this forum!

Thanks!
Brian

**Ken Waltham** · Feb-03-2004, 11:42am

I once owned a Randy wood conversion that was a 1948. It also had a very plain back.
I think it even had a mahogany neck, that Randy stained to look like maple.
I also think those early Gotoh tuners had arrow ends, too.
This one I had, had Kluson tuners on it, I think.
That's a long time ago, but, it was quite "yellow" in the finish, and, BTW, sounded excellent.

**danb** · Feb-03-2004, 12:36pm

Hey Loar fans, here's a "support your local mandolin archive" product that I expect lots of folks here would like.. an F5 Mousepad made up from the pictures Frank Ford took recently of #72052

It's a nice big mousepad with a high-detail print on it. You can see a bigger image of it by following the link.

Proceeds help me convince my wife that it's a good idea for me to spend more time adding instruments to the database

**Darryl Wolfe** · Feb-03-2004, 12:58pm

As has been said...I'm betting on it being a 1948 F12 conversion of some sort

**David McLaughlin** · Feb-03-2004, 3:46pm

Here is the cover of some Loar hand transcribed sheet music. It comes complete with first mandolin, second mandolin, mandola, mando-cello, mando-bass, and guitar, all written by hand. Acquired from Lloyd's widow in the 1950s or 1960s, acquired by me in the 1970s.

**David McLaughlin** · Feb-03-2004, 3:48pm

Hre's a closeup of some music...

**David McLaughlin** · Feb-13-2004, 8:10am

My daughters love to play with toys...

**Big Joe** · Feb-13-2004, 8:49am

Hey David!
How could a fellow like you have such beautiful daughters???

.

**David McLaughlin** · Feb-13-2004, 12:04pm

They get their beauty from their mom, who is a total knockout. Do you think I'll have my hands full when these girls are teenagers?

Thanks for the case loan, Big Joe. I believe that a case-for-purchase has been located for the mandolin, so I will return yours soon.