Difference between OK and brilliant setup

[mlbex]

Is this the right place for setup questions?

I posted a question about setup in 'builders/repair', but got minimal
response. I think they're a bit more technical over there :=).

I'd like to know the difference between an OK setup, and a brilliant
setup. I've got my action where I want it, and all the intonations are
within 1-2 cents on the fifth and octave on all strings. My mando
is a Summit F100 that's fairly new. I'm re-doing the setup
because I changed my tailpiece, and had to take the strings
and bridge off.

A note about tuners and tuning -- they all seem to sweep past the note
(high), then fall low, and settle somewhere. It is the 'somewhere' that
I try to get spot-on.

Is there anything else I can do to make the setup better/outstanding?

Is there a setup primer or other information about mando setups somewhere?

[ShaneJ]

mlbex, check out Frank Ford's Frets.com. Scroll down to the "Instrument Setup" and the "Mandolin" sections. He has tons of VERY good info there fully illustrated with closeup pics.

Sounds like your nut slots are too tight - grabbing the strings. You might file them SLIGHTLY wider (NOT deeper). You might also run a pencil lead in the slots to coat the grooves with graphite.

[otterly2k]

mlbex...re: your tuning issues...
when you restrung your mando, did you stretch the strings out as you were putting the new ones on? If not, you may simply be experiencing the strings stretching and settling around the tuner posts.

re: making the set up better... if the action is how you like it, and the intonation is good, what exactly are you looking for?

"Set up" is a general term that refers to a variety of things. Once the basics are in place...clarity, no buzzing, intonation, action, etc...what makes it "outstanding" is how well it's set up for YOU.

[mlbex]

There seems to be some misunderstanding about the tuning portion of my post. I'm familiar with the nut binding problem, and how to lubricate or adjust the nut.

But in this post I was referring to what happens when I am not turning the peg. After I have adjusted the string and stretched it as necessary, a single strike causes the tuner to read the note sharp/flat/then settled. Striking it again (presuming it does not slip) produces exactly the same result. Changing tuners produces the same result as well.

I'll check out the Frank Ford website. That's what I was after . (A google search did not produce that link.)

>re: making the set up better... if the action is how you like it, and the intonation is good, what exactly are you looking for?

I am looking to see if there are more things to make 'better'. I actually enjoyed doing the setup, and I'd like to know more about it. The Frank Ford link ought to help.

Thanks
Mike

[ShaneJ]

One other thing that will improve tone is to have the bridge foot EXACTLY fitted to the top. Frets.com shows how to do that as well. There are threads in the builder section here as well.

[sunburst]

otterly2k has it right about a set up being a personal thing. What one will consider an OK set up can be anothers brilliant set up.

As for the tuning thing, I think your tuner is reading correctly. When you strike a string, it is sharp right at first, especialy if you strike it hard. That's because it is swinging in a wide arc when initially struck hard, and that stretches the string tighter and causes it to be sharper at first. It then settles down to a more consistent pitch. After the note is ringing, is starts harminics in the other strings, and in itself, and your tuner can pick those up. Some harmonics can be flat or sharp, because of equal temperament.

[Howard Klepper]

An ideal string would not ring sharper because of the greater tension increase of a hard strike; it would just vibrate with greater amplitude. #In other words, it has greater force restoring it to center, but a longer way to travel to get there, and the period is the same regardless of how great the initial displacement is, within the limits of the string's elasticity. #My hypothesis about the swing on tuners is that initially the tuner picks up more of the upper partials, especially those which are octave multiples, which ring sharp of their ideal frequencies (inharmonicity) due to string stiffness.

[otterly2k]

Regardless of the explanation, it sounds like mlbex's experience of the initial pitch being sharp and settling in is a common one.

[Stephen Perry]

Aspects of basic setup I consider moderately important include:

* #Damping untuned afterlength between tailpiece & bridge. #Sometimes between nut & tuners as well.

* #Fitting bridge so center plane bisects string break angle.

* #Chalk fitting bridge, rather than counting on sandpaper

* #Working action height & truss rod adjustment to allow cleanest play

* #Tightening all the screws

* #Making sure nut is very secure or glued #



Frets prove a bit troublesome. #They're rarely quite where one wants them. #On the gamba, I'd often tweek a fret (they're tied on) one way or another to make intonation better. #Currently I favor the fretless world. #Or the piano, where everything is always nicely out of tune!

My next setup step would be to individually compensate the string courses for the specific instrument and string choice.

[Mojo]

A quick check using the search function didn't yield any helpful results regarding bridge chalk fitting, would you care to elaborate a bit Steve?

TIA

[Stephen Perry]

One uses transfer paper or color (e.g., chalk) between the bridge and top to find high spots and remove them. No big deal, we do it for violin bridges all the time.