Picking an O Soundhole Mando

**Philox** · Feb-03-2006, 9:25am

I would greatly appreciate anyone's thoughts regarding a good beginner/intermediate level oval soundhole mandolin. #I am an advanced beginner/low intermediate level player looking for a oval hole mandolin - principally for Celtic music but to occasionally play other types of music. #What are your thoughts regarding the merits of a Flatiron 2M army/navy style, a Breedlove Quartz OO, a Weber Y2K, or one of the Mid-Missouri models. #Mostly, I am wondering about the versatility of the instrument across musical styles, and the quality of construction. #Are any of these, clearly beginner/student level mandolins or ones that will remain suitable as my skills improve. Any thoughts anyone has will be greatly appreciated.

**luckylarue** · Feb-03-2006, 10:01am

My advice is, at your level, get the best mandolin you can and don't be concerned w/ oval/f-hole, A or F shape, etc. That Glenn student model for around $600 sounds like a great deal - though not an oval. Check out his website - with new A2 Pomeroy I know I shouldn't even think about another mando - dang you, J. Mark Lane!

**Frank Russell** · Feb-03-2006, 10:24am

If you have the luxury of trying some out, I would also suggest looking for a well-preserved Gibson teens oval. Nothing beats an 80 or 90 year old mandolin for your listed types of music. I had one when I was first learning to play, and I still miss it. Beautiful tone, and some of them are really comfortable to play, at least for my hands. Otherwise, I've owned most of the ones you mentioned, and I would go with the Flatiron pancake, or try to find an old Flatiron performer a-style, if you don't mind f-holes. Good luck. Frank

**Eric F.** · Feb-03-2006, 10:29am

You named three good options, and I've owned one (or more) of each.

Breedloves have a wide neck and radiused fretboard that many people find comfortable to play. The Quartz is a very nice mandolin, well made and clear sounding. It lacks the richness and compelxity of a more expensive mandolin, but it is a good value and sounds good. Ken Cartwright likes to say they are the teens Gibson A's of today, and who am I to argue?

Mid-Mos are wonderful, too. For the money they are very hard to beat. The sound will be different from an archtop like the Breedlove. Flattops often have a boomy kind of sound. Some people say they sound guitarlike. I like the M-11 (all mahogany) and the M-4 (Rosewood back) best, but they're all good. I owned an M-1 and it was a sweet mandolin. I've played many different Mid-Mos and never come across a clunker.

Flatiron flattops are nice, too. Many people feel they have a certain "mojo" and that, I think, is what has drive up the prices on them recently. The two I've owned sounded terrific and looked nice, too. You occasionally come across one with some really spectacular wood.

I think any one of these could serve you well for a long time. The Breedlove might be a little better suited to playing in a group situation as it probably will project a bit better. I used to play mine with a guitarist and would occasionally chop it. It was respectable enough; certainly more of a chop than I've been able to wring out of any flattop. Good luck. I think you're on the right track with any one of these.

**JGWoods** · Feb-03-2006, 10:45am

I have a Quartz OO, had a Flatiron pancake- Cadet- and have a Gibson A4. Sorry to say I haven't played a Mid-Mo.
All of the ones I have experience with were well made- I don't think there's any issues there- although an old Gibson may have issues based on lack of care over the years- exposure to dryness, high humidity etc. My A4 has been through a lot and it sounds wonderful but it is probably out of your price range.
My Flatiron Cadet was loud and clear and pretty easy to play- maybe the breedlove is easier- but I liked it a lot, just not enough to keep it when MAS set in.
My Breedlove plays great, looks great in that austere way the Quartz mandos look, has excellent woods in it for the price, and is altogether almost a keeper

It's got good tone and volume- the tone is not as sweet or complex as my A4 and it suffers in comparison. It's going up for sale soon- I'm waiting for otterly2k to sell hers first in the classifieds before I list mine. I think these are a great buy used.
I think all of them a suitable for the long haul- keepers depending on your musical journey. An old Gibson A, A1 in good shape may be $800+, the others should be cheaper, and less of a risk in terms of repair surprises. Faced with a choice between a carved top Breedlove Oval hole and a Flattop Flatiron 2M round hole I'd go Flatiron for Celtic, Breedlove for anything, and I would have to look at the big picture: if you are going to have 3-4 mandos in your future you fill one of the slots with the best one you can find of the Flatirons or Breedloves, later get the other...

**GBG** · Feb-03-2006, 11:23am

My first choice would be a teens Gibson, but I would like to hear the Davis Flattop that is shown on the Mass Street Music website. Scott wrote a glowing description of this mandolin putting it in a higher class than the other flattops that are for sale.

I have owned a Flatiron pancake type, Mid-Mo M2, and a Breedlove KO. None of them could compete with the old Gibson, but they are all OK. I kinda want another flattop and would like to hear the Davis.

**chuck.naill** · Feb-03-2006, 2:45pm

Well since no one else mentioned it. The Eastman MD 504's are a lot of mandolin for the dollar. Hand carved and lots of features found in more expensive instruments.

I agree that an old Gibson would be nice. I am having one restored, but finding a good one that plays well is going to be hard to find. Plus getting one that needs to have work and work done right is another chore especially when playing is your primary motivation.

I looked at the Mid Mo's to. They used to not have an adjustable truss rods. I think that's important. They are flat and not curved so that makes it differance. I priced one with the materials I like and the cost was going to actually be $300 more than the Eastman.

My advise is to check out Eastman String's web site and familiarize yourself with their philosophy. The instruments come with a limited lifetime warrentee.

Steve Perry from Gianna Violins in Frendsville, Tennessee posts on this site a lot and is a dealer for Eastman. The link is somewhere on this site to his luthier's shop.I think right now he is offering free shipment. He actually has Eastman send him the instrument not being set up and he does this service , but I am not sure if he still does it without cost anymore.

Chuck

**fatt-dad** · Feb-03-2006, 2:51pm

I think that my simple simon Flatiron 1N is just a great mandolin. It's the one that I reach to most often (I have a 1920 A3 and a Flatiron A5-1). The sound is really increadible for the size and it's just plain fun to play. I had a Breedlove KO, which was real nice, but not nice enough to offset my 1N. I had a Kalamazoo KM-11 (another pancake), but the Flatiron 1N was better. I may sell my Gibson A3 (to fund MAS), but it's not likely that I'll sell my pancake.

fatt I've-never-played-a-Mid-Mo-though dad

**PaulD** · Feb-03-2006, 3:09pm

I'm with f-d in the "I won't part with my Flatiron pancake" department. It's small and lightweight. It's not the most balanced or refined tone, but I think it sounds great and it really belts it out in a jam. The biggest problem is availability; I see them regularly on EBay but some folks want quite a bit for what they are (or were intended to be). I'd say MidMo has filled the Flatiron Pancake void rather nicely. Another option that might not be the cheapest but you would get a great instrument is Chris Baird's Arches flattop. You would be supporting a great builder and 'Cafe member, and the one flattop I played at Acoustic Music in SLC was a great instrument.

Paul Doubek

**GBG** · Feb-03-2006, 4:01pm

Why not make a trip to Elderly Instruments and try out some of these abovementioned mandolins?

**Philox** · Feb-03-2006, 5:23pm

Thanks much for all your comments - helped a lot to clarify my thoughts regarding this.

**Bob DeVellis** · Feb-03-2006, 9:12pm

An old Gibson is as nice sounding and versatile an oval hole as you'll find but they're getting up there in price. Mid-Mo is exceptionally nice for the price but isn't in the same league as a good 85-year-old mandolin (not surprisingly). Vega cylinder-backs can also be fantastic but they've pretty much crossed the $1000 mark if they're good ones. A lot depends on what sounds good to your ear. I happen to like the old oval-hole sound but the new ovals coming onto the market are good instruments in their own right, just not the same as the vintage stuff.

**mikeyjc** · Feb-07-2006, 8:53pm

Hi everyone - very interesting thread, thanks to all who posted.

I've actually just ordered a new Breedlove OO to replace my Flatiron pancake 2MC (search the Forum for my ID, and you'll read all about the story of the 2MC purchase). #The 2MC is up at Elderly on consignment (not yet on their website, stay tuned!).

I'm far from a mando expert, either knowledge-wise or as a musician, but (as I mentioned above), I find it very interesting that this thread covers all 3 mando-makers that I'm somewhat familiar with: Mid-Mo (my M-2, my first solid wood mando, which I decided to keep over the Flatiron only for reasons of economics), the Flatiron 2MC, and my new Breedlove OO (should be here next Monday).

Keep posting, all - great thread!

**VictorLouis** · Feb-08-2006, 10:33am

For those familiar with Rigels...

IIRC, I read comments somewhere that there's less difference in tone between the Rigel A's in f-hole and oval-hole versions. That is, when compared between the two types of models in other brand lines.

Any truth to that?

**Bob A** · Feb-08-2006, 11:17am

I'm with bobd in singing the praises of old Gibsons. They're still affordable; a decade ago you could get a good one for 6-800, and they haven't jumped 'way beyond that yet. I've even seen F2's for around 3K, a bargain at the price.

Of course, they vary in sound quality, but you'll know a good one when you play it.

Anyone who's serious about an instrument needs to get as much instrument as possible; a hundred-dollar wonder will not go far towards pleasing a player. If it's possible to delay gratification to get a better instrument, then that's the way to go. Always buy a better instrument than you can afford, and if it happens to have been used, you won't face the depreciation horrors if and when you need to sell/tradeup.

I've seen folks complain that old instruments need repair work; I haven't found it to be particularly true. Once in a while you get back shrinkage, an easy fix; eventually any instrument needs a refret, so that's a wash. So long as the instrument is sound when you buy, you should be OK.

**JGWoods** · Feb-08-2006, 11:35am

My A4 is singing like a bird in the dry winter weather.

**arbarnhart** · Feb-08-2006, 12:14pm

I agree about the old Gibsons also, though I don't have it in the budget right now. I have a Washburn oval hole A that is pretty much a copy of the old Gibson A (in a thread in the build forum a few days ago, someone who had one had laid it on the full size plans and said it matched up almost exactly). It's is a cheapie - around $200. It has a solid top that is apparantly machine carved but sounds great (not just my opinion) and keeps a tuning. I still want a Gibby, but I am not sorry I bought the Washburn.

**jessboo** · Feb-08-2006, 10:11pm

I brought a lebada a4! i would tell every mandolin payer they should have an oval hole mandolin. in the collection oh yea my lebada rocks

**Greenmando** · Feb-09-2006, 12:17am

I found that Eastman makes a great oval hole. My 804D

**ToneDeaf** · Feb-09-2006, 7:24pm

I've got a Breedlove Olympic. #It's a step up in price, woods, and appts. from the Quartz. #I've not played or heard enough Quartzes to say it sounds better or plays easier, though. #I like that the neck is long and elevated, and the baseball bat thickness of it doesn't bother me much.

My Olympic doesn't match the better old Gibsons in low "chunk" or volume, but has a clear, ringing tone. It's about the right volume to wail along with a fiddle, openback banjo, and guitar. #It won't get drowned out, but I don't have to be careful not play too loud like I do when I play my F5 in the same setting. #The Olympic gets lost in a big jam.

When doing home recordings of fiddle tunes, I usually prefer the sound of the Breedlove to my F5. #The one time I played it through a mic in a live setting, I was unhappy with the sound I got, but it may have just been the setting or a bad day and not the mando's fault.

**alespa** · Feb-13-2006, 9:23pm

PaulD thanks for that link on Arches . . . very informative for anyone interested on how an instrument goes together!

**freshlyplucked** · Feb-17-2006, 11:04pm

I am researching for my next purchase, which will likely be about a year out. So far, a Breedlove Quartz oval hole is sounding likeliest. I play mostly Celtic, but I like mixing in more bluegrass flavor than some purists might like. My question is this- how big are the differences between say, a Quartz OO and an Olympic? Is it worth putting off my purchase another year or two? -Currently, I'm playing a Washburn M2- perfect to learn on, but MAS is setting in quickly!
Oh yeah, feel free to tell me if you think the Breedlove's not the way to go- I just like the feedback I've heard about them, and big radiused fretboards sound great to my big fat hands!