Does a ten-string mandolin/mandola exist?

**Kid Charlemagne** · Jan-17-2006, 5:07pm

I've been thinking about this as a possibility for a custom instrument, and wanted to see what you guys thought of it.

Basically, it's because I have a Schwab 5-string electric and I really like the extra range I get with it. Sometimes I find myself wanting to be able to drop down another 5th from G, but of course have no where to go.

I found myself wondering if such a thing might be possible on a 15" scale or not. Essentially a ten-string, acoustic instrument with a scale length in between a mandolin and mandola, and hopefully not too floppy on the C.

What do you guys think. Possible? A fool's errand?

Any builders with a notion one way or the other, I could use the input for sure.

**danb** · Jan-17-2006, 5:12pm

Exists, often some compromizes involved. I used to own this one:

It's for sale at intermountain guitar & banjo now actually. There are a couple vintage ones around, some modern builders make 'em. Hard to say- you pretty much gotta try them. I personally haven't found one I was 100% tickled with though I've had a few different 10-stringers now. The vega was killer for backing.. I think personally this would work best on a resonator mandolin, or as an octave 10-str approx 21" scale.. next project for my reso guy!

**Lee** · Jan-17-2006, 5:23pm

I used to own a custom built Stiver 10-string F-style mandolin. Designed from ground up by Lou to see if a normal (13/7/8") scale would work as a ten-string. Lowest string gauges were .052". I didn't think the low strings vibrated well, though it was certainly a fine well-playing instrument. Later I aksed Bill Bussman about a ten string and he said he'd not want to try a scale shorter than 16".
Just to get a feel for it get yourself an old 15-3/4" scale Gibson mandola and fool around with different stringings.

**J. Mark Lane** · Jan-17-2006, 5:24pm

Does this exist:

**Pedal Steel Mike** · Jan-17-2006, 5:24pm

Rigel makes one. You can see it here.

**J. Mark Lane** · Jan-17-2006, 5:25pm

For more info see:

http://tinyurl.com/cflj8

**Kid Charlemagne** · Jan-17-2006, 6:30pm

Originally Posted by (Lee @ Jan. 17 2006, 18:23)

I used to own a custom built Stiver 10-string F-style mandolin. Designed from ground up by Lou to see if a normal (13/7/8") scale would work as a ten-string. Lowest string gauges were .052". I didn't think the low strings vibrated well, though it was certainly a fine well-playing instrument. Later I aksed Bill Bussman about a ten string and he said he'd not want to try a scale shorter than 16".
Just to get a feel for it get yourself an old 15-3/4" scale Gibson mandola and fool around with different stringings.

This concerns me a little bit, because it was Bill who I asked about it recently.

I've got one of his C#s, and absolutely love the thing (actually think I may have sent some business his way today, just by letting a friend of mine play my C#). I'm not sure I can think of another builder I'd rather work with.

Frankly, if Bill won't do one, I'm not sure I'm interested. Maybe I'll just get him to build me a mandola or another mandolin instead.

**Jim M.** · Jan-17-2006, 6:34pm

Bill built at least one, for Trevor at Acoustic Music in England. Here's a pic:

The website is http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/

**craigmurray** · Jan-19-2006, 9:08am

Here is a photo of an Apitius 10 string from Oliver's website. #It is a standard mandolin scale length. #From the inlay it looks like it was built some time ago, as I don't think Oliver has used the scroll inlay for his name in many years. #He suggests a CGDAE tuning.

**Paul Hostetter** · Jan-19-2006, 3:36pm

We kinda missed the guy above, but Hamilton de Holanda, below, tours the US. He has a new live solo CD that is simply astounding.

**glauber** · Jan-19-2006, 3:41pm

Do you know who made Hamilton's instrument? I hadn't seen a 10-stringer in Brazilian shape before.

**mad dawg** · Jan-19-2006, 4:15pm

David Freshwater will build you a 10 string mandolins for 420GBP (~740USD at today's exchange).

One of these same 10-string mandolins has been on ebay twice lately <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Freshwater-Mandolin-Beltone-banjo-mandolin-extras_W0QQitemZ7381301698QQcategoryZ10179QQssP

ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">paired with a beltone banjolin</a>. The seller received zero bids both times she posted the auction (starting bid was $1500), so perhaps she might be willing to part with the Frehswater separately if you contact her offline.

NB, I had a 10-string standard scale mando once, and the lower course didn't hold a C tuning very well, but tuned up to D it stayed in tune pretty well and wasn't too floppy when playing.

**Paul Hostetter** · Jan-19-2006, 5:04pm

I'm pretty sure his bandolim 10-cordes is by João Batista of São Paulo. There's a list of makers here. João Batista is near the top of the heap.

**Lee** · Jan-19-2006, 5:23pm

Kid Charlemagne; interesting coincidence. Yours is the exact same reason I wanted a ten-string acoustic. Right down to the Schwab 5-string electric.
I wonder what's the scale length on that OldWave 10-string shown above.

**mad dawg** · Jan-26-2006, 10:32am

Originally Posted by (mad dawg @ Jan. 19 2006, 14:15)

David Freshwater will build you a 10 string mandolins for 420GBP (~740USD at today's exchange).

One of these same 10-string mandolins has been on ebay twice lately <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Freshwater-Mandolin-Beltone-banjo-mandolin-extras_W0QQitemZ7381301698QQcategoryZ10179QQssP

ageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">paired with a beltone banjolin</a>. The seller received zero bids both times she posted the auction (starting bid was $1500), so perhaps she might be willing to part with the Frehswater separately if you contact her offline.

NB, I had a 10-string standard scale mando once, and the lower course didn't hold a C tuning very well, but tuned up to D it stayed in tune pretty well and wasn't too floppy when playing.

The aforementioned eBay seller just posted the Freshwater 10-string separately, but at a $700US opening bid it seems a little overpriced, given that you can order a new one for a few dollars more -- but I suppose the benefit of this auction is getting rid of the wait(link to auction).

**manjitsu** · Jan-26-2006, 11:24am

Paul Lestock (Arrow) builds a five string in the Jazzbo model.

-Chris Rorrer

**steve V. johnson** · Jan-26-2006, 12:54pm

Stefan Sobell also built some ten-string mandolins.

A friend in Cincinnati has one and it is just -splendid-!

stv

**Bob DeVellis** · Jan-26-2006, 2:01pm

Interestingly, when I spoke to Stefan about 2 years ago, he seemed to be actively discouraging people from going the 10-string mandolin route. Even on the big bodied mandolins, he felt, it was really hard to get both bass and treble working satisfactorily. Of course on the larger members of the mandolin family, his 10-stringers are better established and apparently consitently successful. Despite Sobell's concerns, as Steve has said, many people have experienced good luck with 10-string Sobell mandolins. I guess it's just more hit-or-miss than he'd like with the mandolin sized bodies.

**Dagger Gordon** · Jan-26-2006, 3:18pm

I've said this a number of times here before, but my main axe for over 20 years has been a 10 string Sobell mandolin.

It's been a wonderful instrument, and the bottom strings work pretty well. I tune the bottom strings to D, using bottom E guitar strings. I think you've got to be prepared to experiment with string guages so they're not too floppy at the bottom. I wouldn't write an instrument off too quickly for that, it might just be the strings are wrong.

I have occasionally tuned the bottom ones to C - in fact I once recorded a Burns song on 'The Complete Songs of Robert Burns' series on Linn records. The song was in C and it seemed to work OK.

Ian Macleod, formerly of Shooglenifty, plays one as well. I'm not certain how he tunes the bass.

**Linda Binder** · Jan-29-2006, 9:36am

In the liner notes for #01 Byte 10 Cordas Hamilton de Holanda writes that "It all started in the year 2000. I asked luthier Vergilio Lima (to build a) 10 string mandolin" which became de Holanda's regular instrument at that time. #More recently, and on that CD, he plays a 10 string produced by Tercio Ribeiro.
--Linda

**Spruce** · Jan-29-2006, 9:50am

" Even on the big bodied mandolins, he felt, it was really hard to get both bass and treble working satisfactorily."

Just for grins, I'd love to see a nice 10-string acoustic instrument fitted with a Novax fretboard...

Love the varied scale lengths on this Earnest Boomerang...

**trevor** · Jan-31-2006, 3:35am

There's loads of info on 10 string mandola/mandolins on my website. Look at the 10 string/cittern pages. I've owned lots and now commission the Moon exclusively for my shop.

I still have the Bussman mentioned above (currently at the wrong price in $s because I bought when the exchange rate was very bad) and the Rigel was also made for me. Unfortunately I sold the Rigel in a moment of financial need.I had a Freshwater made a few years back, not impressed.

I have found 16" scale to work very well, fine for the low C possibly at bit thin on the E.

I am waiting, and have been for a few years now, for a Capek A4 exclusive 10 string, std mando scale length. I reasoned that as Rosta Capek get the most bass out of a mandolin he might pull off the C at standard scale. Unfortunately it always gets put to back of the queue as I order plenty of mandolins off him. I thinks he's the best around. I will post when it comes….

**Martin Jonas** · Jan-31-2006, 4:08am

The ten string concept may well work best an octave down: the Neapolitan liuto cantabile is a 10-string OM/mandocello combination and was used interchangeably with the guitar in romantic Neapolitan mandolin quartets. Raffaele Calace's favourite instrument!

Martin

**trevor** · Jan-31-2006, 4:20am

Martin,
Works great an octave down too. Plently of those on my website also, including one by Monteleone! See 10 string/cittern gallery and for sale pages.

Works even better at around 20" scale GDAEB, capoed at the 5th gives CGDAE, octave mandolin, mandola and mandolin all on one intsrument, (see my own Bussman on the gallery page, never going to sell that one, its what got me into this business) great for travelling, very versatile and you can take it on those flying things. I've comissioned three from Jimmy Moon 20" scale (two for the shop one for me), should be coming in about a month.

**danb** · Jan-31-2006, 5:05am

I have had 3 10-stringers in my day.. A sobell 21" scale, a Steve Smith 23", and a vega mandolin scale. The vega worked very well for strumming.. melody on the lowest course was iffy due to floppiness, a light touch required. The sobell was the best for scale vs tuning (GDAEA in my case), and the Steve Smith was the best sounding when open or capoed. The Sobell had balance accross all 5 courses, though dynamics were pretty light (how much sound you could get out with a harder hit), the Smith had superb dynamics and tone, though the low D wasn't as boomy as Roger's 10-string Smith (he also used elevator cables for the lowest course though!).

Overall, I'd say the ultimate 10-stringer is probably an OM 21" design, tuned GDAEA and emphasized on the low-midrange. My sobell had the full-sized zook body as well, looked like a big red onion with a small neck. Personally, I think Steve Owsley Smith has created the most amazingly toneful bouzoukis I've ever laid ears on.. In an ideal world, I'd get a 21" GDAEA 10-string from SOS!