What's the Deal with Uilleann Pipes?

[John Flynn]

My musical background is in rock, folk, church music, old-time and a little bluegrass. I have recently taken an interest in Irish music and I now participate in a weekly session and I am also taking Irish mando lessons. I am really enjoying it, but I have a lot to learn.

One of the things I don't understand is Uilleann pipes. I have heard some great recordings of Uilleann pipes and I have heard the saying that "It takes 21 years to make a piper." So I know they are capable of sounding great, but they are really hard to play. My experience with them in local sessions has been interesting. What follows are my tongue-in-cheek, newbie observations:

> Pipes take a long time to set up and tune, but they aren't always in tune when they play.

> Pipes need a lot of maintenenance during a session. Pipers seem to always be tinkering with thier instrument. One guy I played with had to super-glue some fitting on his pipes twice during a session.

> As wonderful as most Irish music is, pipers seem to like to call "pipe tunes" that sound atonal and tedious. When they call these tunes, most of the other players just sit out.

> Pipers, more than other players, seem to want to "noodle" with thier instrument between tunes and thier noodling is also atonal and tedious.

> Two sets of pipes playing together go way beyond atonal and tedious, all the way to cacaphonous.

> Pipers seem to be more vocal about the mistakes the rest of the session group is making.

> When really difficult tunes get called, pipers tend to switch to tin whistle, which sounds a lot better.

> The tone the pipes produce ranges variously from sounding like a kids' kazoo, a duck call, a cartoon car horn and, there is no better way to say it, extreme flatulence.

So, is my experience atypical? Am I missing something? Are pipes an essential part of Irish music that one acquires a taste for over time?

[danb]

Heh. Pipers are rare, and good pipers doubly so. Even in London, I can only think of one or two that appear at sessions with any regularity..

An observation first about Irish sessions in America.. In the states, you get much more of a defensive "keepers of the flame" approach to the music from American players with Irish heritage. They are very keen to define more narrowly & rigidly how things should sound, how it should be played, etc. I personally run screaming from sessions like that, I think they suck the life out of the music. That's partly what you are getting from some of these folks you mention, I'll wager.

Secondly.. Piping is almost like a guild or trade, rather than an instrument. Pipers generally have to do all their own maintenance, including cutting & installing reeds (quite tricky), and tuning lots of analog parts. Imagine if your mandolin was gut-strung, and had all sorts of extra parts to install. Pipers have much closer relationships with a master teacher too in my experience, generally a much more directly-handed-down tradition of music.

Because piping is quite a bit more challenging from a dexterity standpoint (pumping the bellows, keeping proper pressure on the bag, lifting the chanter while fingering, operating regulators with your forearm!) getting good at it takes longer than other instruments too.. sometimes the pipers get some impressive egos from that, but more often than not they're very nice dedicated players. Totally different in the states vs Ireland again.. the ego & snobbery just seem to utterly vanish as soon as you get to England, Scotland, or Ireland to play a session.

The complaints/criticisms about "what everyone else is doing" is likely this "American Irish Session" phenomena.

Now.. back to mandolins.. I found in the states that there is not much respect for mandolins in Irish music. They're usually hard to hear, and often played by tenor banjo players which means you get a lot of the tinny hard atonal picking, sometimes close enough to the bridge to make sparks fly. As a second instrument, it can sound really awful.. compound that with the "keepers of the flame" phenomena and a mandolin player in a session often starts at strike 2! There are quite a few mando players that frequent this board that do not match that description at all.. they play very inventive & skillfull pieces on their mandolins using technique very specific to the instrument.

Usually the people griping about the other players.. either the others are doing something REALLY wrong and inappropriate, or they are trying to steer the jam into their own preferences.

Over here.. if you show up with a bluegrass mandolin, you tend to get asked to play a Monroe tune. Or sometimes the pipers start playing dueling banjos. You never know. It's almost always more fun though

[John Craton]

Heh. Pipers are rare, and good pipers doubly so.

If you want to find a plethora of good pipers, visit Halifax, Nova Scotia. I was priveleged to be there several years ago during the Tattoo, and nearly every time I turned around I could hear great piping going on. Some, I'm sure, were visitors, but there were lots of locals playing too. The art of piping isn't lost in Nova Scotia!

[jmcgann]

Dan, I am writing you in for President in 2008, even if you still live overseas. You are right on with the "keepers of the flame" observation. Pipers are essentially double reed players, like oboe or bassoon- ask any of those folks how easy it is to maintain an instrument and get a good tone!

The tone the pipes produce ranges variously from sounding like a kids' kazoo, a duck call, a cartoon car horn and, there is no better way to say it, extreme flatulence.

As far as real piping goes, may i suggest listening to Paddy Keenan, Jerry O'Sullivan, Leo Rowesome, Willy Clancy, Liam O'Flynn and any other acknowledged master piper-you wouldn't use a local hacker as a standard of excellence in any music, would you? If you want to learn traditional Irish music, listen to the real master players, and not just whoever happens to drift into the local session.

Whether or not it is an acquired taste- who knows. I loved the sound from the start, but the first piper I heard was Jerry O'Sullivan. I have been lucky enough to play with him and players like Cillian Vallely of Lunasa, so maybe I just haven't had as, um, aromatic an experience...

[danb]

John C: I agree, Highland pipers are much more common and accessible than Irish/Uillean pipers. They also sound wonderful in large groups! Uillean pipers are more likely to be loners!

John M: Let's run on a "no session nazis" platform. You should hop a plane to london some time, it'd be a real hoot to take you down to my favorite local here!

Robbie Keenan (I think) on various CDs with Paddy Glackin are my favorite recordings of the pipes.. Sounds absolutely brilliant along with Glackin's punchy Donegal playing style. "The Whirlwind" is a recent release, still spins in my iPod quite often!

[POB]

A good uilleann piper is a joy to play with - to many it's one of the defining voices of Irish traditional music; but as Dan has pointed out, they're hard to find. It's the lesser ones that usually have the attitude problems and who are likely to do the annoying stuff already mentioned. The pipes are a powerful instrument and badly handled, they can be hard on the ears. When they're handled well, they're sublime.

One thing to note about the pipes and tuning is that they are generally just-tempered rather than mean-tempered so that they can play very harmoniously with themselves or other instruments similarly tempered, but can sound a tiny bit off when playing with mean-tempered instruments.

Couple that with the fact that at a session, you'll often have a backer who has no clue about how to interact with the drones and regulators of the pipes (or a piper who'll have no clue how to use the drones and regulators effectively, and when not to use them at all) and you can begin to see where the difficulties set in.

[Perry]

Here's a guy I know from my neck of the woods "keeping the flame alive" . I played a few local sessions with him years ago. Nice guy and a heck of a player. He plays with two alt.Celtic type bands now:Black 47 and The Ruffians but he could play the trad stuff very well. He set up fast and played in tune.

As far as loners I guess you could take his domain name two ways

http://www.soulpiper.com/

[Avi Ziv]

To illustrate what Dan was saying about how much more relaxed sessions are in Ireland - A few years ago, and before I started playing in sessions myself, I was at a pub in Ennis where Eoin O'Neill was leading the session. It was quite a large session too. One young guy brought in a Cajun accordion and everyone begged him to play some Cajun tunes, which he did (singing too!) to huge cheers and yelps. Try that here....

Also Dan, it's interesting because the tenor banjo players that I meet are in fact mandolin players (or even guitar player) who got frustrated from being drowned and looked for a louder instrument.

Avi

[danb]

Also Dan, it's interesting because the tenor banjo players that I meet are in fact mandolin players (or even guitar player) who got frustrated from being drowned and looked for a louder instrument.

Yes.. with mandolins you can only do a couple things..

1) Play a resonator mandolin (many of them sound "piercing", painful on the ears).. I'm about to try a Rigel resophonic soon though so watch this space..

2) Play a very loud F5 style mandolin (I did this for the last 2-3 years.. a Lebeda F5)

3) Play a tenor banjo

4) Play a resonator tenor guitar (my now 50% choice) to retain a little of that mandolin-tone subtlety

5) accept the fact that you are your own main audience, and play your favorite mandolin at whatever volume you can manage (50% of the time I bring my favorite snakehead out now)

Tenor banjos really want their own technique. It's quite hard to go from mandolin really, there is a lot more to learn and quite a different technique to them. I fudge it a bit by playing that tenor guitar, on which most of what I know on bouzouki & mandolin will map over to it pretty cleanly..

[Avi Ziv]

Dan - I use method #5 most of the time. The main problem is starting tunes. Since it sounds relatively weak, people often don't recognize my playing as actually starting a tune. Maybe they think I'm noodling between tunes and over-run me. I'm not even insulted by this (any more) just looking for a way to equalize. I do find that playing some backup, and especially counter-melodies, does bring out the mandolin a little more; maybe because many notes are placed within the spaces of the melody and get a "chance".

I like the idea of tenor guitar but I've never seen a resonator one around here.

Avi

[glauber]

"Like the banjo in bluegrass" hehe! That's true. They're the loudest instrument in the group, you can only have one per group (they don't often play well together), and they're instruments that are capable of imense expression but require inordinate talent and dedication to play well. There's nothing like a good piper, nothing in the world has that sound; it's almost like having a portable pipe organ, but it has more expression than that because you can bend the notes.

[POB]

> The tone the pipes produce ranges variously from sounding like a ... cartoon car horn ...

This is very true. Indiscriminate use of the regulators sounds, to my ears, very much like an angry traffic jam.

[otterly2k]

I LOVE the Uileann pipes, when played well. I had the good fortune to play in a session in Greenfield, MA a couple of months ago that had not one but 2 really good pipers. But they do tend to dominate. That session had a tenor banjo player and a guitar, and then heaps of flutes and fiddles. I could not really be heard on my OM, but had a good time anyway.

[Clyde Clevenger]

The only pipers I've been exposed to, Todd Denman and Denis Brooks, turned out to be two of the best in the US, some would argue in the world. Todd told me once that pipers are often in their own world, playing what he called "in cold blood", meaning they care little for the audience, or other musicians, they play what they like the way they like it. I have seen "The Brooks" play his one hour set many times. He starts with two pints, then starts playing what could be called and aire, but more spontaneous and improvised progressively getting faster for an hour, ending with just blazing polkas. The most amazing musical show I have ever seen. Todd lives in the Bay Area and Denis in Cork. If you every get the chance to see either one, it's worth the price of admission.

[John Flynn]

pipers are often in their own world, playing what he called "in cold blood", meaning they care little for the audience, or other musicians, they play what they like the way they like it

Gee, just the kind of musician I like to jam with! Makes you wonder why they even come to sessions. They could just stay home and have a session with themselves. I wonder if they take the same approach to romance!

[glauber]

I wonder if they take the same approach to romance!

You better believe it!

[Bob DeVellis]

For some reason, we occasionally get clusters of pipers here in North Carolina. Todd Denman was here -- his wife taught at Duke. I wasn't aware he'd moved out west but I haven't been "out and about" much musically in quite a while. Pat Sky is also here in the triangle, both playing and making pipes. There's at least one other seasoned piper in these parts that I've heard play but whose name I don't recall. There are also a few other competent but not fully seasoned pipers here abouts. I've been in sessions with at least three at once, although mostly they took turns playing.

Much piping is considerably closer to sean nos singing in form than to dance music. The emphasis is on expressiveness with little concern about rhythm, or even pitch, especially on slow airs. The notes kind of warble about at their own pace but the effect can be absolutely breathtaking. But the pipers I know can certainly do fine service on dance tunes, as well, with pitch and rhythm spot on. It takes both a good piper and a good set of pipes for successful ensemble playing. Pipes go out of pitch like crazy if the reeds aren't right. Weather can also wreak havoc. Pat Sky has been known to correct players' reed problems on the spot with a bit of expert manipulation. Jerry O'Sullivan spent untold hours at Swannanoa one year fixing students' errant reeds. Not every one has enough experience to make reeds behave and when they misbehave, the instrument can sound pretty terrible.

As with banjo players, there's a big difference between a relatively new and a truly accomplished uillian pipes player. But the good ones can really add something special to a session without dominating or overpowering it.

[keithd]

Tim Britton was in the Bay Area last year and visited a pub session I was at; his playing is amazing - it really stands out from other pripers I've heard (granted, only a handful in person). The guitarist he was travelling with (Pat Egan...?) was also wonderful; I love DADGAD, but once in a while, really skilled standard-tuning back-up can really clear the air. Check out his website:

http://www.skep.com/britton/

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Interesting. Playing daily in a band with a piper, I must say there is a lot to learn. Uilleann pipes are not overly loud compared to some pipes. We use mostly Scots smallpipes, sometimes French, and sometimes Spanish. The Spanish are more like the highland pipe, but still not as loud. The highland pipe, is of course, not the instrument to play mandolin with as a rule, but with sound reinforcement strings do nicely. Friends from Asturis (N. Spain) play pipes that are very similar to highland pipes and are a lovely sound. For years (and maybe still) they have had a 9 member band, two pipers. No conflict in unison and often harmonizing.
I myself play Bulgarian pipes, but am still a beginner and it will be awhile before I am coming out of the woodshed. The unique ornamentation of eastern European pipe music is not yet a skill I have mastered.
But on mandolin - learning aggressive technique helps. Monroe style is very helpful. Listening carefully to the phrasing of the piper is essential, so one can compliment. I keep my changing of chords quite simple, and tend to shy away from the busier Celtic progressions that are common on other stringed instruments. Cuts thru more and gives a fresh approach. Let the pipe carry the melodic nuance and be there at the right time to emphasize phrases clearly and cleanly. This is what elevates a multi-instrument group with pipes beyond the melodic space that a solo piper is normally playing in, where phrases can get very tight and seem a bit repetitious in all but the hands of a good (and creative) piper.
Be prepared to break a lot of strings.
We have always taken our music into other than Celtic realms, as pipes are prevalent in so many musics around the world.
In jams, it would seem to me that a piper must be at his/her most creative, relying on broad music skills to clearly signal all changes. This would be either by calling very common tunes or heading an improv that has a clear, recognizable, and common structure - no irregularities but room for variations.

rasa

[steve V. johnson]

Hey MandoJohnny,

IIRC, you live in or near St. Louis, which is where one of the great gatherings of pipers (well... maybe the only one in the Midwest... <GG>) happens in the spring, the St. Louis Tionol. #Check out www.tionol.org for more details. #If you can come round to some of the events you'll hear some great piping.

I can't argue with your points of complaint, not at all, but only to add that, other than Tim Britton (a wonderful player and agood pal, and Pat Egan is definitely one fabulous guitar player), we get to play with John Cooper from the QuadCities of Illinois & Iowa and Jim Smith from Shelbyville, IN, both fine and tasty players, free of the difficulties you mention. #So I'm kinda spoiled and I haven't run across those very much, nor very lately. #(Touch wood!)

I like the presidential ticket with DanB! #Good going! # Keep your ticket secret from a lot of those folks over on TheSession.org, they seem to like to be rule-makers and enforcers of various hierarchies of players... <GG> # Most fortunately, the sessions in Indiana, in Louisville and Cincinnati, seem to be pretty free of Protectors Of The Tradition. #Here in Bloomington, we've been joined by all manner of folks that stretch 'the tradition.' #Probably the most stretchy was the nice guy from Egypt who heard the music and ran home to get his oud to come and learn the tunes on it! # Of course, after a little while we demanded from him some of his native music, and we were treated to a lovely recital, both instrumentals and a ballad.

We also have some fine mandolin players out this way, who get pretty good respect in sessions... Down in Louisville there is John Woodward (on a nice Heiden F5) and at least a couple others, and in the Cincinnati area, I've heard some fine mandolin, including from Doug Mast who plays a gorgeous five-course Sobell mando and teaches at the Riley School of Irish Music, too. #In Indianapolis both Jenny Thompson (on a splendid, custom-made Lawrence Washington mandolin) and Johnandrew Bellner are both very well-respected mando (and multi-instrumentalists, too) sessioneers.

One of the nicest times in a session is when a mandolinist and one or two others start a tune and folks sit back and let it build a while before (or, even better, instead of) all jumping in. # Mandolin and flute! #Mmmmmmyeah. #Of course, mando & fiddle, and a mandolin and a concertina are grand together.

I hope to see you at the Tionol, Johnny! #Last year John Carty taught mando & tenor banjo, and I think he'll be back again this year to teach again.

All the best,

stv

[Jim M.]

Kevin Carr plays uileann pipes, fiddle, and whistle with Wake The Dead, and he's a master at blending in with the group and playing tastefully. If you get a chance to hear Kevin or WTD, definitely go, or check out their CDs at www.wakethedead.org

[jmcgann]

If you have the chance to work with John Carty, take it! That guy is the real deal.

[glauber]

Definitely, John Carty is the man. Amazing fiddler too. He's the king of melody and phrasing. I haven't heard him play mandolin yet.

[Avi Ziv]

Carty is very high on my list these days. I would love to have an opportunity to study with him. Maybe he can show me how he tunes his tenor guitar and what he does on the De Dannan set on this latest CD. Just beautiful! but it's played in - what - Bb?

Avi

[keithd]

Hey sliabhstv,

Not to get too off topic, but what else can you tell us about the St. Louis Tionol? I'll probably be going this year for the first time. It looks like one day of workshops, a few recitals, and some sessions...? This year they have listed one Tom Hall for the mando/banjo workshop...but no info about him - know anything? And the registration form doesn't even list the mando/banjo workshop...?

Thanks,

Keith