4 string mando

[Dfyngravity]

Well, I just got some new strings but before putting them on I wanted to try out my mando as a 4 stringer. So I took off one string from each pair. I was quite surprised with the sound. I noticed when I first took them off I had to retune down a half step because the top raised up due to half the string pressure. I really like the sound and it really makes those jazz tune a lot easier and the sustain is even better. I am actually keeping it this way a little long before I restring. Very fun to play and you can do a little more string bending too.

I know Paul Lestock is making the Jazzbo mandolin and after seeing that mandolin I have always wanted to try it. For those builders out there, If you are building a mandolin for only 4 strings can the top be graduated a little thinner because of the half string tension? Or am I off with that?

Just thought I would post and tell of my new experiments with my mandolin.

[Ted Eschliman]

HUGE 4-string fan here!...

I foresee a bright future in the 4-string mandolin. Nothing better for attacking chord/melody. Trade tremelo for vibrato, and sustain comes much more natural. Unlike guitar, you've got the magical 5ths tuning, too.

[Paul Hostetter]

In Brazil, the cavaquinho is essentially a 4-string mandolin with a rather long and illustrious history. Seek out any recordings by Henrique Cazes if you want some inspiration, he's amazing. The cavaco is usually guitar-shaped, because it is in fact a soprano guitar, and it looks to the unaided eye like a ukulele. Some players who use it as a rhythm instrument in samba tune it to a major chord. Cazes plays incredible melodies tuned both like a mandolin and in "open G" tuning. If you listen carefully to old recordings by Jacob do Bandolim you'll hear some of them played on single-course instruments. Henrique Cazes is on Kuarup records.

Carlos Gil on cavaco, 16 year-old Jacob in the center:

[arbarnhart]

I am confused about the half step down from lack of pressure. When I set intonation, I tune my two outer strings to normal pitch. It is still the same distance from nut to bridge, the string diameter is still the same and so the tension for tuning is the same whether a string has siblings or not. When I tighten other strings I do have to go back and tighten any strings that were tightened first, but I don't think it is from my top sinking.

[Dfyngravity]

Well its like this. If you take your adjustable bridge and raise it up a 1/8 of an inch you will find that the strings have gone sharp and vis versa, atleast that's what happens to my mandolin when I change the action. And if you look at it geometrically you can see that the string length does change. Draw a straight line from your nut to your bridge along your fingerboard(side A) then from that point draw a line up to the strings(sibe B) and finally your strings form side C. Changing the angle between side A and side C cause the length of side C to change, longer if you raise the action and shorter if you lower the action. Now if you take 4 strings off the mandolin your top will raise a bit due to the lessing of string tension. Which will result in the raising of your action. And that's how the pitch went sharp a bit. All part of the Pythagorean Theorem.

[Paul Hostetter]

I understand the reason for the phenomenon you describe, which makes complete sense, but of course you can simply tune the strings to the normal pitches and adjust the action as you prefer. I'm sure a maker could adjust the graduation for four rather than eight strings, though that's somewhat uncharted territory. It's like 12-string guitars and why they don't make great six-strings.

[arbarnhart]

Now I understand - it went sharp and then you tuned it back to normal. I thought you meant you tuned it a half step below normal. I can be a little dense some times.

You must use super light gauge strings.

With the pull-offs, slide, etc. that I use, a single .011 under normal tension would rip my fingers apart in about 15 minutes. I have tried to muscle through a solo after breaking an e-string, and all I can say is ouch. Perhaps on a short scale mandolin it wouldn't be as bad. Still sounds painful.

[glauber]

In Brazil, the cavaquinho is essentially a 4-string mandolin with a rather long and illustrious history. Seek out any recordings by Henrique Cazes if you want some inspiration, he's amazing. The cavaco is usually guitar-shaped, because it is in fact a soprano guitar, and it looks to the unaided eye like a ukulele. Some players who use it as a rhythm instrument in samba tune it to a major chord. Cazes plays incredible melodies tuned both like a mandolin and in "open G" tuning. If you listen carefully to old recordings by Jacob do Bandolim you'll hear some of them played on single-course instruments. Henrique Cazes is on Kuarup records.

AFAIK, the "open G tuning" (DGBd) is an accident. People tune the high E string down because it tends to break a lot (cavaquinho is played pretty hard).

You can't have a good samba beat without one. It has a magical sound, really.

The "Jacob do Bandolim" equivalent in the cavaquinho side was Waldyr Azevedo. Like Jacob, he was a virtuoso player and inspired composer.

[Dfyngravity]

Hutto #39, nop I use D'Addario J74's. They don't seem to do anything to my fingers yet. Although I play my mandolin atleast 5 hours a day so my fingers are pretty tough.

This whole 4 string mandolin thing is just awesome. I may be ordering one here soon. Dang on this stupid MAS!!!

[wsm]

Here is a Hootz Cavaquinho Solidbody.



and some really cool looking dude ripping it up on one...



More on Hootz can be found here.

[Ken Sager]

I've had my Pomeroy F5 string this way for a few months. It's a hoot, but I don't plan to keep it this way. However, I'm very excited to see what happens down the road with some new ideas of 4 and 5 string mandolins. I'll probably, who am I kidding, I'll be buying one before too long.

Syndrome? It's a sickness.

[mandroid]

FWIW; Opinion:I like the 4 string [14" scale] electric better with mandola strings on it than I liked the mandola strings on the mandola (too heavy), both in CGDA tuning.
Would resolve the .011 in E pain problem, bigger and lower pitch.

[Eugene]

I like four stringers too...but favor kinda old ones. #Hummel dedicated his famous concerto to Bortolazzi who was an advocate of the 4-stringed mandolino Cremonese (same tuning). #Here is my own ca. 1890 mandolino Toscano. #It is great fun; it makes fast scales easy and plucking all the notes of ornaments (like trills) sounds really cool on this thing.

[Paul Hostetter]

I love the photo - the crazy quilt is perfect background! I assume this is strung with gut or perlon?

[Eugene]

Yup, gut it is.

[hotclub]

I'm a complete convert. My Nugget never sounded better! I've traded in my tremelo for vibrato. Jazzbo on the way.

[Jasper]

I looked up "vibrato" and found it defined as a slight fluctuation in pitch of a note, so it sounds like string bending. Can someone explain how to "vibrato" to me if it isn't string bending?

[Bill Snyder]

Vibrato is moving the left hand in a repetitive rolling motion quickly on the tip of the playing finger. I don't think vibrato is very effective with fretted instruments. It works well with vilolins and the like though.
You can also do vibrato while singing.

[hotclub]

On a fretted instrument,it IS string bending, in a rapid side to side motion ala Django.

[Peter Hackman]

On a fretted instrument,it IS string bending, in a rapid side to side motion ala Django.

I do use vibrato a lot (on guitar)
and I'm not aware of any sideways
motion. I'm pretty sure my fretting finger moves along
the string, so I guess the effect comes from minute variations
in pressure.

So, at least, Django's way is not the only way.

[Peter Hackman]

HUGE 4-string fan here!...

I foresee a bright future in the 4-string mandolin. Nothing better for attacking chord/melody. Trade tremelo for vibrato, and sustain comes much more natural. Unlike guitar, you've got the magical 5ths tuning, too.

Define "mandolin"!

Seriously, quite a few people used to believe that
Tiny Moore played guitar on the old Bob Wills
records; I did not simply because I listened
to his hollering ("the littlest instrument in the world,
that mandolin"). These recordings inspired me to try
some jazzy licks, a la Christian, on mando, some of them worked, some of them were transformed in the process,
and of course I found new ones just playing.

I was not aware then that he played a single-course instrument.

Whatever you call that instrument (the five-string could
be conceived of as a tenor guitar with an added
string on top!) his playing was incredibly smooth,
a funny contrast to Jethro's heavily dotted
rhythm on Back to Back.

I'm not attracted to the four-string. That might
be cool with amplification and in a "pure" jazz context.

And I love the tremolo, the way people
like Grisman and Bush use it (I tremulate too much).
Chords? I'm a guitarist; I tend to think of the mandolin
as an extension of the guitar, or as a soprano saxophone
with strings.

[Klaus Wutscher]

"I don't think vibrato is very effective with fretted instruments"
Well, BB King, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, and just about every Blues/Rock electric guitarist living or dead might disagree respectfully. But I agree that the techinque really lends itself to the violin.

[8ch(pl)]

I am going to side step a bit. A lot of people really hate Mandolin-banjos, but Vega and others offered a 4 string version. I guess this would be a Soprano banjo, they are not very common. Has anyone had experience with these? I would think the 4 strings would have a better sound than 8 on a banjo.

[Eugene]

"I don't think vibrato is very effective with fretted instruments"
Well, BB King, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, #and just about every Blues/Rock electric guitarist living or dead might disagree respectfully...

Not to mention every 6-string classical guitarist who has ever been.

Vibrato executed perpendicular to the string on a fretted instrument can only go sharp of the principal. Vibrato parallel to the strings takes a bit more work because you'll need to exert enough pressure to stretch a string flat in swinging the weight of the hand towards the bridge, but it fluctuates both sharp and flat of the principal.

There aren't too many people who use vibrato on fretted instruments with paired courses because it is relatively difficult to have each course fluctuate in pitch together in a way that doesn't sound like funky dissonance. There are some who do, and it was noted as an ornament in baroque-era tablatures for 5-course guitar (i.e., in paired strings).