How many vintage mandolins have been modified?

**Flowerpot** · Mar-25-2004, 4:58pm

The thread about Hoss has got me curious about this. How many vintage mandolins, say pre-1950, have been modified for the sake of sound? I don't want to count repairs (like the restoration of Bill Monroe's mandolin), just purposeful alterations by the owner. And fingerboard replacements, you can chalk up to playability (like John Reishmann's Loar). For mods done for tone, I can think of

1. Sam's Fern (Hoss) (top thinned for sound, fingerboard replaced or chopped off?)
2. Mike Marshall's Loar (tone bars reduced, Virsi-ectomy)

Are there more noteworthy instruments out there which sound the way they do because somebody has altered them in some way? (Virsi-ectomies could be another catagory.)

**johnnymando** · Mar-25-2004, 6:22pm

I found a 28 F2 on ebay that had a wierd looking top with pieces of thin wood like stars,circles,ect cleared or lacquered onto it.A real mess.It was relatively cheap,so I took a chance on it.Thought about parting it out and then contacted Lou Stiver to see if he could put one of his F style tops on it to make it playable.Lou did an great job and it sounds and plays great for a short scale mando.
Its a cool conversation piece that barks too!

**Greenmando** · Mar-25-2004, 9:26pm

I remember that F2. It almost looked like the top had been carved but after looking at the pics more it looked like wood glued on. I am happy it did not become a wall hanger.

**sunburst** · Mar-26-2004, 3:48pm

You probably know about the Loar that Ricky Scaggs had and had the neck cut smaller (all the way to the truss rod I understand)

I've seen a couple of F4s "converted" to F5s, one was in Kentucky, I didn't get the owners name. It sounded great, by the way.

I'm trying to remember...someone around Roanoke, maybe Hershel Sizemore had or has a F7 "converted" to F5

I got to check out Mike Marshal's Loar a couple of weeks ago. It has a wider fingerboard added to accomodate his big fingers. There's a wedge of wood under the fingerboard to increase the bridge hieght. John Monteleone regraduated that mando and replaced the tone bars with smaller ones as well as doing the Virzectomy. He still has the shavings in a jar "if anybody ever wants to put them back" as Mike said.

I saw the Loar with the parrot painted on the back once in Kentucky, does that count?

**sunburst** · Mar-26-2004, 4:18pm

Flowerpot, I remembered another one.
several years ago I replaced a fingerboard on an early 30s F5. The original was broken and had inacurate frets. You know the owner.

**Bobbie Dier** · Mar-26-2004, 4:44pm

johnnymando,
I always wondered what happened to that mando. I hoped it could be rescued. I'm glad someone could give it a good home and fix it up. Can you show some before and after picks of the mandolins makeover? Can you tell a little more of the story about what all that crap really was on the top. Did it look like a mess all over ,or was it just on the top?
ima

**johnnymando** · Mar-26-2004, 6:02pm

Imapickin,
I shipped the F2 to Lou Stiver.He e-mails me back saying "don't waste your money on this",also"I just about cried when I saw this"(me too!)I told to just install the top to make it a player,not a restored piece.He says ok,does his repair and ships it back the old top and a cd of 45 photos of the repair process.
The best I can figure is that somebody in England took thin pieces of wood in design shapes like cicles,stars and a larger design that looks like a German cross from WWII.They then covered the mess with laqcuer or clear.Then some body drills about 40 holes in it...unbelievable.The holes are filled with wood putty.
Lou did a great job and went well beyond his quote.He bound the fret board,installed new nut and put a beautiful F5 top with fretboard elevated.I've since installed new tuners.It has really opened up since Dec.
I'll try to attach some photos.
No luck,my photos are too large,I'll have my son help me later.

**Dru Lee Parsec** · Mar-26-2004, 6:27pm

JohnnyMando: You might want to try a free open source photoshop clone called Gimp. www.gimp.org
One of the many things it can do is resize your photos.

**Brian T** · Mar-26-2004, 9:12pm

Don't know if it's considered vintage, but a local picker here has a 68 F-12 that was converted to an F-5. Randy Wood did the work. Also re-graduated the top.

**evanreilly** · Mar-26-2004, 10:44pm

Didn't Bobby Osborn have the Virzi replaced in his Loar???

**Fretbear** · Mar-26-2004, 11:12pm

Jack Tottle's F-5 is an F-4 conversion, Jesse McReynolds also had one; and of course the Dawg's famous '25 Fern has Dave Appollon's F-5 fretboard on it.

**Hal Jeanes** · Mar-27-2004, 12:51am

Scotty Jackson, an artist in his day told me he made and installed a virzi to replace the one that had been removed from Bobby Osborne's Loar. He also said he did the installation through the f holes never disturbing the back. Scotty at one time was George Gruhn's lead repair man. He also built a number of mandolins. Sadly, Scotty recently passed away.

**AeroJoe** · Mar-27-2004, 2:32am

Someone told a story on here once about Bill Monroe wanting a soundpost put in his Loar, for some reason, he got this in his head and he wanted it done...he was pretty adiment about it, and was told repeatedly it (I hope I am re-telling this right) would hurt more than help the sound...but the luthier/repairperson got tired of Bill pestering him, so in went a soundpost...and when Bill came by to pick it up, he hit a lick or two and said something to the effect of "Well you just gotta take that thing right outa there..." That story was so funny and I can just hear Bill saying that in under two seconds after begging for weeks to have this done to his mando...

If whoever told this story in the first place would, please repeat it...the way you told it is much more accurate than I have put here and the way you tell it is so...Monroe!!!

**rixter** · Mar-27-2004, 3:33am

Don't forget Frank Wakefield's Loar. After baking it, painting it red, making epoxy bridges and everything else, its probably been through more permutations than the rest of them put together!

**Scotti Adams** · Mar-27-2004, 7:31am

...well..Dawgs '25 Fern...multiple fingerboards....Reischmans Loar, new fingerboard....Skaggs Loar he played in the New South days...radically thinned down neck...John Duffys mando..the neck was reset allowing the action to be... jacked up there. Mike Marshalls Loar...total rehaul...I knows theres more..Im just having a brain fart right now..phooey..

**Bob DeVellis** · Mar-27-2004, 8:43am

Interesting that every person responding to this thread has interpreted "vintage mandolin" to mean an old Gibson.

**Scotti Adams** · Mar-27-2004, 9:15am

...well it has to be of a certain age to be considered "Vintage"....so I think Gibson has pretty much got that sewed up....there are very few other builders out there that you come close to have vintage wares ot there...

**Bobbie Dier** · Mar-27-2004, 12:36pm

johnnymando,

Thanks for the update! I'm looking forward to seeing the pics. Wish we could hear it too!
ima

**johnnymando** · Mar-27-2004, 9:03pm

I can't get my photos to download...there is a photo of my band on pickininthepasture.com that shows me with the F2.Go into the band lineup,we are the last band Seneca County Bluegrass.

**Bobbie Dier** · Mar-27-2004, 9:19pm

johnnymando,
Wow, it looks pretty normal now. Keep all decoupage materials safely out of reach. I bet you don't even put any stickers on the case.
ima