Playing scales daily

[JonZ]

So I asked what I thought was a reasonable--if maybe a bit long-winded--question whether others memorized or read these exercises, and if I might need to upgrade my reading skills before taking on one of the violin books like Sevcik or Flesch that others have posted about. And there are a couple of responses that address those questions, plus a dozen or so about why scales are good, bad, useless, or better or worse than some other kind of practice.

Ham sandwich... Maybe it's unavoidable.

Anyway, party on. Do what you like. If we don't do the same thing, that doesn't mean one of us is wrong.

I took a stab at Flesch and found it pretty difficult to read, plus the recommended fingerings are not necessarily the ones you would chose for mandolin. So, yes, I think being a good reader is a prerequisite.

I decided to work though "The Complete Mandolinist" instead.

I have been looking at a lot of the violin material that my son is working on lately, and though the instruments are tuned the same, the finger board is often approached very differently. There appears to be much less use of moveable forms (FFcP and the like) in violin.

[JeffD]

I have been looking at a lot of the violin material that my son is working on lately, and though the instruments are tuned the same, the finger board is often approached very differently. There appears to be much less use of moveable forms (FFcP and the like) in violin.

Yea moveable forms don't seem to be taught until much later. And the fiddlers I know don't go up the neck unless its necessary, (up the e string or sometimes up the a string a and e string for a double stop. Never catch them going up on the d string for anything.) Violinists seem to be more fearless in this regard, but I surprise even them when I do a B part in third position only because the harmony is better.

The reason, I figure, is frets. Moving up the neck without frets requires real good intonation, and so its much harder on fiddle. My fiddle teacher says that one advantage of first position is that there are so many open string notes to keep your pitch.

But it is a reason our little instrument is indeed much more than just a picked fiddle.

[JonZ]

Also worth noting is that Flesch does not recommend practicing any one of his patterns daily, but rotating through.

Another good way to work on scales, without working on scales, is to play tunes in different positions and keys. Often scale exercises start on root and end on root, while tunes often put the root in the middle of the action.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

I would add a small but useful tweak when practicing generic scales, arpeggios, and the like: make sure to play the exercises starting on upstrokes as well as down strokes. For example, the most common way to play a G scale starting from the open is to start with a downstroke, and alternate pick from there as you move up the notes. I suggest also starting on an upstroke and alternating from there.

If the rhythmic aspect of it gives you pause, then instead of starting with an upstroke, simply play the first note of any exercise twice, starting with a down stroke. This will put the rest of the exercise on the opposite strokes than the usual. I.e., G G A B C D E etc.

Cheers
MRT

[pickinpete]

Matt raum has two books called "Mandolin Technique Studies" that I find much more usefull. All of the exercises are based on scales and arpeggios but as niles called it, he "patternizes" them into musical studies instead of just dry scales and he thows in tunes arranged to demonstrate how its used. the second book is mainly musical studies and the last section in vol 2 is taken from a book of violin studies. I dont work them everyday like I should but I believe they are much more usefull than just dry scale practice.

[timv]

I took a stab at Flesch and found it pretty difficult to read, plus the recommended fingerings are not necessarily the ones you would chose for mandolin. So, yes, I think being a good reader is a prerequisite.

Thanks Jon. That's really what I'm looking for, things to work on that aren't played the way I would to tend choose to. I get the impression that Thile was influenced quite a bit by time he spent working on violin pieces that traveled around the fingerboard. I'm a lot more comfortable playing around fixed patterns myself but I'm thinking that some exposure to that other thing might do me good.

Also worth noting is that Flesch does not recommend practicing any one of his patterns daily

Noted. I expect to play them weakly at best.

[JonZ]

You're welcome.

I think Chris Thile's patterns come from a different violin book. The "thing" about them being that they are 24 notes long, which allows them to be played in a continuous loop in 2/2, 3/4, or 4/4. I am sure someone on the site knows the author's name.

I believe that Mike Marshall, who also plays violin, practiced Flesch.

[mbruno]

I stand by my routine which is a revolving practice schedule - I never play this in the same order twice in a row. This is written for Major scales, but I do the same with Minor keys, modes, and etc

+ Pick a scale (i.e. G major) and play it in every mode (i.e. start on G, A, B, C, D, E, F#)
+ Play the major scale in 3rds (i.e. G A B G, A B C A) - this mimics a lot of fiddle tunes which is helpful
+ Play 5 note scale (i.e. G A B C D, A B C D E, B C D E F# etc)
+ Play appreggio's of every chord in that scale (i.e. G B D, A C E, B D F#, etc)
+ Play appeggios's in 5ths (i.e. G D, A E, C G etc)
+ same in 4ths (i.e. G C, A D etc)
+ Play double stops on each course (i.e. first double stops on the E & A strings, next on the A & D, next on the D & G)
+ Play the major Pentatonic of that scale
+ Play the minor Pentatonic of that scale
+ Pick 3 fiddle tunes in that key

[SincereCorgi]

I have also been curious about which violin book Thile is talking about in his video. Clearly, knowing what that book is would be the secret to playing exactly like him.

[timv]

Clearly, knowing what that book is would be the secret to playing exactly like him.

I believe you left out the sarcasm tag there.

Though if we followed mbruno's routine we'd be well on our way!

It would be fun to know, but at this point I wonder if his scales are loosely based on violin methods without being note-for-note from any one book. Someone likely would have said which one by now if they were. I've read that the pattern for playing a three-octave scale up and down in 48 notes was Galamian's innovation, but maybe those particular scales were passed down to him from a teacher, ("These are from a book of violin scales" without saying which one) and from the teacher's teacher before that. Or something...

[Mike Romkey]

I'm intriqued, and more than overwhelmlmed, mbruno. Could you please post a video of your routine in G, up to the fiddle tunes?

I work some out of Flesh. Just btw, when I was studying violin my teacher was selective about what she had me work on. Some of the arpeggios were not especially useful. And some of the fingering are more about getting up the neck than what you would use in playing a piece.