Help! So Many Choices...Which One To Get?

**DaveSoreff** · Nov-10-2005, 4:13pm

Hi Everyone,
I hope you have room for a newbie in this place. I have been lurking for a bit, and really like what I have read. I'm hoping to draw on some of your expertise. So here goes.
I am a full time professional musician. Singer/guitarist and violinist. In the past couple of months, I have become really enamored of Celtic and Irish music, and in particular, the sound of the octave mandolin. I just got back from four months on the cruise ships, E-Bayed a ton of stuff, and now find myself with about $1200-1500- to spend. See where this is going? So, the obvious question...which one to get?
I have always thought to get the best equipment you can afford, and while I'd love to have 2k-4k to get something handmade and special, it looks like my first OM will be something a little less expensive. Some of the names I seem to be running into a lot are Mid-Missouri, Petterson (Sp?), Freshwater, Johnson. I already read very well, thanks to my violin training, and I also want to use this for playing waltzes and the like on the ship when we play that style of music. I think it would sound great.
Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions? I will be gigging out with this as soon as possible, so a pickup is also to be considered.
I really appreciate any guidance and help, and look forward to many more postings here. Thanks.

Aloha,
Dave

Ps:
What's the deal with FOTW...are they still open and/or to be trusted? They seem to have stock, according tot heir website, but the website looks as if it hasn't been updated for a while.

**Jim M.** · Nov-10-2005, 5:18pm

Welcome! The CBOM bug can bite hard. I've got two long-necked things tuned in 5ths, with a third on the way, so I know whereof I speak.

At your price range, you can get a very good OM. With your budget, avoid the Johnson. I haven't played the Mid-Mo OM, but their mandos are very nice.

Freshwater is very good for the money, but you will generally have to wait a while before you can get one. In fact, you'll probably have to wait a good bit longer than David estimates, but you will get the benefit of phone calls from Scotland with David rambling on in an entertaining fashion. #

The Peterson is definitely a high quality instrument in your price range, adn they have an added advantage of being available. Elderly has, I think, 5 of them, and Gryphon has 4. Both of these dealers are very reputable and I've had numerous good transactions with them. I haven't played the ones at Elderly, but I have played the Petersons at Gryphon, and they are all very nice. My favorites are the walnut one, and the maple/cedar one. The other two are great instruments, but I found the tone brighter than I want.

There are many quality retailers who don't generate the comments Folk does, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions from these previous Folk threads:
FOTW 1
FOTW 2

**Celtic Saguaro** · Nov-10-2005, 6:13pm

I like my Petersen Level II OM a lot. Handmade, lots of volume, great tone, a variety of woods to choose from.

**steve V. johnson** · Nov-11-2005, 11:12am

Hi Dave, welcome to the fray! <GG>

Searching out an OM is arduous, but fun. First, I'd suggest that you spend a bunch of time reading the archives of this section, for there are lots of things about how to select instruments, both off-the-shelf ones and custom ones from luthiers.
And there are lots of things about various luthiers, too. Important background because there are very few places that one can go to play -any- OMs, let alone to compare various instruments side-by-side. If you're in the continental US (that "aloha" may mean that your in beautiful #50?), Elderly Instruments in Michigan or Mandolin Brothers in NYC are good places to start.
NYC is a good place to start for a good variety of almost anything... <GG>

Another way to see/hear/play a bit of a variety of instruments is to attend some Irish festivals. This is the 'off-season' for festivals, generally, but there are some around, one in Texas, I think, and a number of them in Ireland. At a good-sized festival you can usually find three or four anyway.

With your experience in music, I would agree with Jim about staying away from Asian stuff, Johnson, Morgan Monroe, Trinity College, Johnson, Michael Kelly. At your stated price range, you're very close to what a nice custom instrument costs. Many of the best makers here can bring instruments in at under $2k, but there is the design process and a wait for those.

The Mid-Missouri instruments are very nice, very simple, and you can have one right away and still have change in your pocket. I'd recommend the rosewood one. I had a maple one thru here and I added a clear pickguard (material from StewartMacDonald's catalog) and a cast tailpiece and it sounded very nice. I believe that they will deliver one with a pickup for you, too.

For a more elegant have-it-now instrument, with more choices of woods and looks, the Peterson is hard to beat. I feel they're the nicest "entry-level" instruments available without waiting. I think he'll sell you one with a pickup in it, too.

A little further afield, from the UK, are the Freshwaters, IMO nice but not as nice as Peterson's, and the Fylde line. I have had two Fyldes, the Octavius and an arched-top OM. I enjoyed them both, kept the Octavious for a couple of years. It's a humble sort, meant to have a bit more 'guitar-timbre' than 'mandolin-timbre' with it's pin-bridge, but I gigged with mine a lot and had great fun with it. The more celtic-looking Fyldes are a step up. You can probably have one of these in a week by ordering online.

I'd still vote for the Peterson, tho.

Then, after you have one in your hands, you can begin to develop your criteria for an instrument that specifically suits your needs, from a custom luthier. Big fun!!! <GG> I went through three or four instruments, then had Phil Crump build me a B-II model that I dearly love. I'm sure there will be others OMs/bouzoukis in my life, but this one is wonderfully satisfying (at ~ $2k).

There have been a lot of folks here excited and satisfied by instruments from the custom luthiers who build these things, and there are now more luthiers building them than ever. Loads of choices, loads of variables, a whole other thing... <GG> You've probably been thru this with other instruments, tho, eh? <G>

I hope this helps...

stv

**otterly2k** · Nov-11-2005, 11:32am

Good advice from those above.
I'd just add to that two things...
1- having been to Mandolin Brothers in Staten Island, I can tell you that you will not find a wide variety of OMs there. They usually have a Weber Sage or two, and maybe a Mid-Mo. I don't think I've seen any other octaves or zouks there over 1/2 doz visits over the last few years.

2- That said, the Weber Sages are in your price range also. I haven't played a Peterson, so I can't comment on the comparison, but the Sages are probably in a similar ballpark and are also readily available (and I know someone who may be looking to sell one used as well). IMHO, Weber instruments tend to be a bit overpriced new.

welcome aboard, Dave... or perhaps in your case we should say welcome aground!

**BradB** · Nov-11-2005, 12:19pm

Steve had some excellent recommendations. In your price range the Peterson sounds like a good buy. Chris Baird also makes some nice celtic octaves in your price range (http://www.archesmusic.com). There are also a couple of Weber Sages in the classifieds for about $1000.

Since you are a professional musician you might also consider upping your budget to the $2000 range. This will give you some other choices of truly professional quality instruments, like a Crump or a Trillium (www.octavemandolin.com).

Another decision is what scale of instrument you want, a longer scale bouzouki or an octave mandolin. And octaves can even have a wide range of scale lengths.

Brad B.

**otterly2k** · Nov-11-2005, 1:03pm

As Brad mentioned, if you have time and don't mind waiting, there are several builders who could make you something very nice in your price range, if you keep it simple aesthetically. My order with Brian Dean is currently at 2k+, but it has a lot of features being added. His base price might come in in your range, as might Baird, Darnton, Dieter (Kennaquahir), Spira, Davy Stuart and many others...

The problem then, is that there's nowhere you can go to just play and compare all of these...

but on the plus side... it's all good! Just about any instrument you get in that range will be worth playing and will help you refine your preferences for the inevitable OMAS to follow...:

:

**DaveSoreff** · Nov-11-2005, 3:08pm

Hi Guys,
I can't thank you enough for the input so far. Some great info and suggestions. I'm justa bout convinced that the Peterson is the way to go. Before posting here, I had done quite a bit of research and reading, and although it is unfortunate that I can't get my hands on one of thse for a trial, I can make a pretty informed decision. Like Otterly said, it's all good, because in this price range, I'm not going to get a piece of s*it, but at the very least, something that will hold me off until I can afford to go a little steeper.
Now I just ahev to decide between Gryphon and Elderly. The used Peterson Level 2 for $975 looks like a nice bargain, and shoudl also benefit from being "broken in". I think I can ssume, like a violin, that a mandolin will "open up" after playing a while. I don't mind pplaying and/or buying used. Just not when it comes to car tires!
So, with any luck, next time I post, it will be to tell you all that my OM is on it's way. Thanks again.

Dave

**otterly2k** · Nov-11-2005, 3:14pm

Get a load a this guy! Two posts and he's already made up his mind! What, no obsessive comparison of bwb vs. wbw binding? No stressing over .25" difference in scale length? No agonizing for months about the relative merits of pin bridges vs. tailpieces, string gauges, pickups, headstock shape, strap placement, not to mention wood species and builders' credentials?

****sheesh****

**Avi Ziv** · Nov-11-2005, 3:26pm

Dave,

I have a Peterson Level II OM and I'm happy with it while learning about these larger family members. Given that it's so hard to find many OMs to play in stores, I decided to get something decent and then discover what my preferences would be, rather than the other way around. Just to let you know that Mr. Peterson is very nice in person. I've exchanged several emails with him and talked with him on the phone too. He can help you with any questions, setup, sell you sets of strings that he puts together etc. BTW - my instrument came with a custom tail piece that requires ball-end strings. Not all do, however.

Enjoy!

Avi

**otterly2k** · Nov-11-2005, 3:33pm

FYI- it may be to your benefit to have a tp for ball end strings... they're easier to find than loops, especially in specialty gauges. My ideal tp would take both (like some allens do).

**DaveSoreff** · Nov-11-2005, 3:48pm

Otterly,
ROFLMAO! I see that obsessing over build details and minute aesthetic points is not limited to the the world of guitars and violins that I have been living in these past years! I wouldn't have it any other way...I feel at home already.
Truthfully, if I was going to have something made for me, and dropping $4k, I would be sweating it out a lot more then I am. BUT...as has been posted here, I think that this will help me get my feet wet, and start to decide what I want down the line. I have spent the last month or so searching online for info, reading posts, listening to sound clips, looking, (sometimes drooling) over pictures. I have certainly pulled the trigger before on more expensive instruments, and I have yet to be let down.

Aloha,
Dave

**otterly2k** · Nov-11-2005, 3:59pm

**phew**

I was worried that you were a pod person. But just knowing you've been drooling over pictures and soundclips reassures me that you're really one of US!

**Jim M.** · Nov-11-2005, 4:08pm

I've played the used Level 2 at Gryphon and confirm that it's a very good instrument. The cedar adds some warmth that, to my ear, is lacking a bit in the maple/spruce ones. Gryphon is also a very good store and will treat you right. Good luck! And let us know when you want to obsess over details of a custom OM.

**BradB** · Nov-11-2005, 4:40pm

Hey, I am currently agonizing over the details of a custom OM, so I know that that's like. I am planning to have Peter Sawchyn build me one of his carved top oval hole models. I am currently agonizing over headstock shape, neck profile, finish, bindings, tailpiece, tuners, fretboard and headstock inlays, top wood, and neck wood.

I think I have it pretty much nailed down except for inlays. I might just leave the headstock plain with no inlay, and just simple dots on the fretboard. But I also might like something unique and special, but not too ornate.

Brad B.

**Celtic Saguaro** · Nov-11-2005, 5:19pm

Having the option of ball-end strings would be nice. #I can use either on my tenor banjo, which makes life a little easier sometimes.

By the way folks, it is Petersen not Peterson, meaning his family probably came from Denmark.

**kyblue** · Nov-12-2005, 12:52pm

My new octave has a tailpiece that takes both kinds of strings and it is a nice option to have.

I have a Flatiron 3MC bouzouki and a Fletcher Brock octave with a guitar shaped body, and when I tried the guitar shaped body for the first time I was sold on that body style.

My new mando teacher just got a Petersen, said he really likes it and also was very pleased with the service Mr. Petersen provided.

**BradB** · Nov-12-2005, 3:28pm

Which tailpieces accept both loop and ball end strings?

Brad B.

**steve V. johnson** · Nov-13-2005, 11:17am

Otterly dashes my NYC fantasies with: "1- having been to Mandolin Brothers in Staten Island, I can tell you that you will not find a wide variety of OMs there. They usually have a Weber Sage or two, and maybe a Mid-Mo. I don't think I've seen any other octaves or zouks there over 1/2 doz visits over the last few years."

Damn. Foo. <G> Ah, I still covet a visit out there anyhoo... <G>

Aloha Dave wrote: "Now I just ahev to decide between Gryphon and Elderly. The used Peterson Level 2 for $975 looks like a nice bargain, and shoudl also benefit from being "broken in". I think I can ssume, like a violin, that a mandolin will "open up" after playing a while. I don't mind pplaying and/or buying used."

Tough choice, unless you're physically closer to one or another... Not to cut them out, but consider speaking with Petersen himself. He usually has some interesting stuff in stock, and he's a true original, a man well worth knowing. He also might have an instrument in process that could be quickly customized for you.

Weber Sages are nice, but side-by-side, I think I'd pick a Petersen. That's just me... (and I'm a Weber fan, too...)

My Crump has an Allen MR-2 (Monteleone-looking) cast tailpiece and I LOVE it. I use guitar strings on my zouk, in which I find I have a wider range of choices (in sets and singles), and if I wish, it can use loop-ends, too.

A number of cast tailpieces, which have the little stand-up hooks to accept loop ends, have holes thru the front and those holes will stop a standard ball-end nicely, too. That's how the Allen is.

Great fun, Dave! Woohoo! <GG>

stv

**otterly2k** · Nov-13-2005, 10:13pm

Sorry Stv~ but don't get me wrong... it's still a MIGHTY cool place to visit... best selection of mandos I've ever had the chance to be around. And an amazing array of other acoustic instruments. If you're ever in the neighborhood, you should still stop by.

I have a couple of different Allen tailpieces that take both ball and loop ends. Adds a lot of flexibility for getting unique string gauge combos...