Bluegrass up the Neck

**RobP** · Sep-30-2005, 3:33pm

Hey Gang,

I have been playing mandolin just over 4 years, after seveal years of guitar. #I play in a country/folk trio with a guitar player, so I have had to make up breaks for many of the songs we do.

Most of my breaks are very major-scale based; I have been after more of a bluegrassy flavor. #I thought it might be time to set up a lesson, so that I did (with our own Clyde Clevenger). #What I learned from him was that I was already using the right positions, but I needed to figure out where to add the blue notes.

When I got home I pulled out Bluegrass Up the Neck (the Niles Hokkanen book) again; I have had it for a couple years but never seriously dove in. #This is just what I needed -- Niles lays out the bluesier sound step by step; I have been working on this material every day for about a week and I already have lots of new ideas to spice up the breaks I mentioned above. #Very very good instruction in the book/CD. #It just "makes sense"!

Anyone else in the midst of this material? #Any "graduates" who moved on to other books? Which ones?

Cheers,

Rob

**luckylarue** · Sep-30-2005, 7:20pm

I have "Up the Neck", but have yet to get immersed in it. I like the idea of recognizing/learning patterns within the scale as opposed to playing notes up and down - and that these patterns can be moved all around the fretboard.

I also really like "Hot Solos for Bluegrass Mandolin", Great songs w/ many interesting variations on the melodies. Highly recommended.

**good_ol_al_61** · Oct-01-2005, 9:44pm

RobP:

I have Niles' Pentatonic Mandolin book and CD. WOW! This little book helped me to understand more improvisation than any personal instruction I have received. But I would not have understood it 6 months ago. Maybe that was the case with your experience. You pulled the book back out when you were "ready" for it and your gray matter was able to absorb it easier. That is what happened in my case anyway.

In any case, Niles is the man! He writes his books the way a genius and a master of any subject does...very simple.

**jim_n_virginia** · Oct-02-2005, 7:35am

I have been playing mandolin for 5 or 6 years about and I also play in a Bluegrass trio and have had to make up my own breaks and mostly they have been pretty simple but effective arrangements but i have been studying with a teacher for a few months now (Pete Frostic of Old School Freight Train) and he has bee helping me understand playing up the neck which is just grtting used to playing up in 2nd and 3rd position.

He has also helped me out by showing me how to apply that "blues note" as you say to my breaks (he calls it the flatted third).

It's really cool when you finally start to understand how it all works.

I keep hearing about Nile's book so I think I am going to check it out. I've come a long way in my solo's, improvisations and breaks but I still have more to learn but luckily the journey is fun!

**AlanN** · Oct-02-2005, 7:57am

Niles' books are all great.

**250sc** · Oct-03-2005, 7:28am

I've found that Niles' books cut right to the chase. Very useable stuff.

**jbrwky** · Oct-05-2005, 3:12pm

When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

**om21ed** · Oct-05-2005, 5:26pm

I need to break the Bluegrass mandolin and pentatonic books out again--but I'm wondering if anybody else had trouble with some of the production quality on the cds

**250sc** · Oct-06-2005, 7:14am

Yep, the CD that I got was real noisy and not recorded very hot but I could make out what was happening.

It's still a great learning tool.

**RobP** · Oct-06-2005, 6:04pm

The CD quality is the one thing I would recommend for improvement -- first that the levels are really low (I literally have to turn up my truck stereo all the way to hear) and also it would be more convenient of the music was in tune with standard tuning so you wouldn't have to re-tune to play along.

Content, however, is TOP NOTCH

Rob

**mandolinearth** · Oct-08-2005, 9:07am

I have had both "Bluegrass Up the Neck" and "Pentatonic Mandolin" for a number of years (since I first obtained a mandoln) and started going through it many times but never got into them more than a few pages but now feel that I am also ready "for the teacher to appear." I play in a five piece bluegrass group and we're starting to play out a lot more and will be playing at a fairly large folk festival next summer. I've been "plateaued" for a while and feel that it is time for me to advance since everyone else in the group is a lot better than I am. My leads are generally pretty simple and stick close to the melody. My fellow band mates are encouraging me to study with a master mandolin player and to "loosen up." I think the Niles books are the key but as far as loosening up, I'm afraid that maybe a 33 year old who has been playing mandolin intensely for three years is as loose as he can get. Any ideas for loosening up too?

**Markelberry** · Oct-12-2005, 8:03am

Originally Posted by (luckylarue @ Sep. 30 2005, 20:20)

I have "Up the Neck", but have yet to get immersed in it. #I like the idea of recognizing/learning patterns within the scale as opposed to playing notes up and down - and that these patterns can be moved all around the fretboard. #

I also really like "Hot Solos for Bluegrass Mandolin", #Great songs w/ many interesting variations on the melodies. #Highly recommended.

luckylarue where did you get the hot solos publication?

**Aran** · Feb-08-2006, 5:01am

Hope no one minds me resurrecting a old thread! Just thought why start a new one if this is allready here.

Anyway, got the book 2 days ago and it is what I have been looking for, the last 2 years. None of the other books explained how to play out of chords as clearly. I must have 6 or 7 books before getting this one and have got a little from all of them but this one I can see being usefull all the way through! Anyway haven't put it down since I got it and although a little tricky to get going with it I can finally say that I am beginning to understand how the mandolin works. I have spent many festival sessions looking in awe at the mandolin player who doesn't seem to know the song at the start, then plays great melody up the neck! Hopefully now if I work hard I will be doing this by the start of our next festival season.

So thanks to mando cafe and the folks here, because otherwise I would never of heard of this book.:D

**250sc** · Feb-08-2006, 7:49am

Like I said above, Niles cuts right to the chase.

Don't forget to move those patterns around so it feels the same if your playing in G or Eb.

By the way, is Traveler one of the Butch Balderassi CDs your listening to? (If not, check it out)

**red7flag** · Feb-08-2006, 9:12am

Thanks to all your recommendations, I just ordered "Up the Neck". Thank you.
Tony

**red7flag** · Feb-12-2006, 10:29am

I just got it and can see why it is not something to rush through as it presents the material in a different perspective and a leap of complexity beyond where I was. I am having to take deep breaths and keep trying to approach the material with a clear attitude so I can understand it. So far, definately good material.
Tony

**MDW** · Feb-12-2006, 1:08pm

I had a similar reaction. I startd playing about 3.5 years ago and bought Niles books about a year into it. I couldn't begin to incorporate what he was teaching or execute it. But based on these recent posts I've dragged his books back and and they're really opening doors for me and I'm almost immediately able to apply the material. Definitely intermediate stuff.

**Clyde Clevenger** · Feb-12-2006, 1:37pm

Turns out, after all these years of trying, I can't memorize my own name. I've tried and tried to learn other peoples hot licks, but they just don't stick. So I just learned a few tricks to play up the neck. Scales, scales and more scales, arpeggios, more scales, then all the double stops, add in a few Bill Monroe licks, keep the meloldy in the break so it actually sounds like what you are playing then drive like hell and take lots of chances. That sounds like Bluegrass to me.

**freshlyplucked** · Feb-12-2006, 7:43pm

I got The Pentatonic Mandolin a few weeks ago, and I am thoroughly impressed. #As soon as finances permit, I will also purchase Bluegrass Up the Neck- I can hardly wait! #It's actually probably good for me to wait a bit while I work an absorbing the one I got; #Niles packs a lot of learning into a book!
Starting mandolin at the age of 32, I was preparing myself to be very patient if I progressed slowly and/or painfully.

# Books like these help so much- it's just been a few weeks, but I can really feel the patterns sinking in and becoming part of my musical vocabulary. #Thanks Niles, the learning is going better and faster than I had any right to expect!

**woodwiz** · Feb-12-2006, 9:58pm

Originally Posted by (Mandoholic @ Feb. 12 2006, 13:37)

Turns out, after all these years of trying, I can't memorize my own name. #I've tried and tried to learn other peoples hot licks, but they just don't stick. #So I just learned a few tricks to play up the neck. #Scales, scales and more scales, arpeggios, more scales, then all the double stops, add in a few Bill Monroe licks, keep the meloldy in the break so it actually sounds like what you are playing then drive like hell and take lots of chances. #That sounds like Bluegrass to me.

You got it right. As long as you can stay with the beat and end up in the right place, you can get away with all kinds of stuff.

If you spend a lot of time jammng with CD's or Band in a Box, you can make most of your mistakes in private, and more importantly, get used to playing your way out of your mistakes, a useful skill.

**Bluegrasstjej** · Feb-13-2006, 10:54am

Sounds like I would need that book!

**gnelson651** · Feb-13-2006, 12:13pm

Originally Posted by (MDW @ Feb. 12 2006, 14:08)

I had a similar reaction. #I startd playing about 3.5 years ago and bought Niles books about a year into it. #I couldn't begin to incorporate what he was teaching or execute it. #But based on these recent posts I've dragged his books back and and they're really opening doors for me and I'm almost immediately able to apply the material. #Definitely intermediate stuff.

Since I am unable to find a decent mandolin teacher in my area, I rely on instructional materials such as books or DVDs.

I find that I will buy a book or DVD that is too far ahead of my experience level. Later, as I have progressed in ability, I'll pull out a book that was too difficult at the time and find I can now work through it.

I hope to get Nile's book "Bluegrass Up the Neck." I have his "Pentatonic Mandolin" but unfortunately it didn't come with the cassette or CD (bought it used).

Anyone know where I can get the CD" for "Pentatonic Mandolin?" I've check Niles website but it doesn't appear that the "Pentatonic Mandolin" CD is sold separately. Hate to have to buy the whole package (Book/CD).

**harleymando** · Feb-15-2006, 3:52pm

does anyone know where i can get the cd, i have the book. thanks

**Adam Tracksler** · Feb-15-2006, 5:14pm

You might try sending an email to Niles. He might just sell you the CD. It cant hurt to try.

**luckylarue** · Feb-15-2006, 6:24pm

Yeah - call or email Niles. I'm sure he'd send you just the cd. I originally bought "Hot Solos" from Elderly when it was on cassette only and he later gave me the cd version. Sorry Markleberry - it's been awhile since I checked this thread.