Did I do something wrong?

[Oggy]

A couple of days ago I re-stringed my new Collings MT for the first time. But something rather odd happened. When I put on the first E-string, the loop gave in: While I turned and I turned the tuner, the loop got smaller and smaller until it was almost gone and I had to take the string off.
Has it ever happened to you? Did I do something wrong? Or was it a string malfunction?
The strings I use are D'addarios J-74's.

[grandmainger]

Do you mean that the loop at the tailpiece acted like a hangman's noose and tightened itself around the post? If so, that would be a string defect... Nothing wrong from your end... Send it back to D'Addario, they'll send you a replacement I'm sure.

Germain

[angrymandolinist]

That was my problem with my first mando - I just assumed it was my cheap instrument being cheap. Did the string "pop" and drop in pitch while you were tuning it?

I'd really like to hear some more opinions on this. No matter what strings I would use the problem would persist.

As you can tell, it bugs me to this day

[250sc]

Is it possible that your loop slipped off the post? If the loop is just tightening on the post you could try to solder the string loops before restringing.

I have an MT and have never had that happen but it sounds like more of a problem with the string than the mando.

[Steven]

In response to angrymandolinist I had much the same thing happen to me and tried all kinds of things to get it to stop,this all started after a normal string change and I could not figuer out what the hxxx was going on.It turned out that I had pushed the bridge ever so slightly to one side and the strings (D) were binding.I'd tune up to the point were I was almost there and then a POP! and the note would be way high.I staightened out the bridge then put some pencil lead to the string grooves and all is well.Hope this helps.

[Bill James]

That's what I don't like about tailpieces that have rounded string posts. The round post will sometimes allow that to happen. If the post is flat on the back side or has "corners" the corners will bite into the loop and "set" the loop keeping it from slipping. Picture a piece of wire wrapped around a round object, it can still be rotated quite easily. Wrap it around a square object and it can't be rotated. Different strings won't help, it's a design flaw in the tailpiece.

[Kevin K]

Seems like the square post would stress the string at two points where the round surface will have more surface for the tension to be shared as well as more transfer of energy.

[Tim]

There is a flaw to the design of that tailpiece but its not that the posts are round. #The problem is that there is nothing at the top to prevent the string from slipping off before it has tension. #Once it has tension, the string is pulling the string towards the body so rotating around the post is a non-issue.

[Jim Roberts]

All you have to do is bend the loop downward where the loop meets the string and the string will stay on perfectly! #That will prevent the string from slipping off before it has tension.

[Bob DeVellis]

If the string loop is closing like a slip knot, I'd check to be sure that the windings aren't catching on something. I've never had a D'Addario string do that. If the windings were snagged, then tightening the string might force the string through the windings, like tightening a slip knot by holding the knot and pulling the string through it.

[Kevin K]

Bob D, What I believe happened to Oggy was the string had slipped off the post and starting going into the channel forcing the loop closed. It's happened to me and others before that use the Collings or Allen TR2 tailpiece, I don't believe the knot actually slipped but could have.

[250sc]

Kevin,
As I asked earlier "Is it possible that your loop slipped off the post?"

That's the only explanation I can think of too.

[angrymandolinist]

Steven, thanks for your help. I'd imagine setup imperfections like those you described were the cause of my mando's problems and probably Oggy's too.

[phynie]

I have had this happen on random sets of strings. All of a sudden... pop! and I drop a step or two down. When I look at the taipiece, the e string is practically strangling the post on the tailpiece. I would love to know if I am doing something wrong. I do not think the string is getting jammed at the nut or bridge becasue I put graphite lubricant in the slots when I restring. I was just assuming it was a mfg defect. I also found that cursing at the strings helped a litte too.

[Bill James]

While I turned and I turned the tuner, the loop got smaller and smaller until it was almost gone and I had to take the string off.

Right, because the loop is un-winding. It usually only happens on the E string because the wire is so small that it doesn't have enough integity to hold the winding as the tension pulls it around the post. It's the flaw of the round or rounded post. My original tailpiece design had a rounded post and I had to recall all of them and change the shape of the post because the E strings would un-wind.

Tailpiece w/round posts = bad juju # #

[Kevin K]

Wow, I've never seen that happen before but could understand how.

[glauber]

I've never seen that either, but that's why the unwound strings on the mandolin go through 2 sets of pegs in the tailpiece. I assume if the loop unwinds, the second peg will at least catch it and slow it down before it does damage.

[Bob DeVellis]

Gee, I thought Kevin K's explanation was right on the money but it seems like the windings actually do sometimes slip from what others are saying. I've never personally encountered that.

[Oggy]

Thanks for your replies.
In my case, the loop were surely un-winding, strangling the post (it never slipped from the post).
But was it really because of the design of the tailpiece? If so, can I prevent it somehow? Any tips or tricks?

[250sc]

Try putting a drop of solder on the winding.

[fredfrank]

If the windings on the string contact the hole in the tailpiece before the post actually has the tension, sometimes the hole in the tailpiece can loosen or push the windings down the string towards the post.

Then when the windings have gone far enough towards the post to allow the tension to transfer to the post, the windings are loose and nothing can stop them from just closing up the loop.

You should make sure on the Collings style tailpiece, that the windings actually go through the hole, and don't hang up on it.

This sort of thing also used to happen to me on the Monteleone style tailpiece occasionally.

[Bill James]

Any tips or tricks?

250sc suggested solder which would certainly hold it but I'm not sure that you want to heat the string. You could brush a little super glue on to the winding, that may hold it.

I know there's not much room to work but, if you had some jewelers files, could you sneak in and file a small "flat" on the back end of the two E posts? As you come up to tension, the loop would "set" into the flat and help keep it from slipping around the post. I've found that it doesn't take much, you just need to get some of the roundness out of the back side of the post.

Let us know how it works out.