Stew Mac binding

[dstretch]

Has anyone used the ABS binding that comes with the stew mac kit? If you have can you give some pointers on how to use it? Best way to get mitre's right.

Thank you.

[Stephanie Reiser]

Is that new binding non-celluloid? Is it white-black-white?
It probably works about the same as the older binding in regards to its handling characteristics, but probably uses a different adhesive - not Duco. Im sure S-M can tell you what to use. Does it react to heat the same way? I bend my older celluloid which I still have a supply of left with boiling water for the tight scrolls and my hair dryer for the more gentle bends. Mitres should be the same I would think. When doing mitres I generally glue up to the binding then stop about a half inch before. When the glue is dry I come in with the single-edge razor to get the mitre exact. I'm not that great at it yet, but with each instrument I do I get progressively better. Just take your time and you'll be fine, especially if that first instrument of yours is an indication. It was pretty good.

[dstretch]

Thanks Amanda Lynn Or Steph

The new binding is real flimsy plastic. It is all seperate from each other. You don't need to heat it to bend it. And I don't know if it will melt together at the mitres with acetone like the celluloid does. Hopefully someone who has used it will post some ideas.

Danny

[Chris Baird]

It won't melt together like the celluliod, but that is not to say that it is not a good material, just harder to miter. I think there are advantages to the non-celluloid bindind materials namely ease of bending, stability, and longevity.

[Stephanie Reiser]

does it come white-black-white?
what do you glue it with?
thanks.

[Hans]

I have tried the black and the white ABS and find that it melts together a little too easily. It gets pretty mushy, and the mitres are hard to control.

[Chris Baird]

I must be thinking of the stuff from LMI.

[Gibson A5]

My wife just got me the F model kit and it came with the same ABS binding as you, and I haven't got a clue how to put the pieces of black and white together. Do you install them one layer at a time with Duco or melt them together with some other kind of glue and install them as one piece? Thanks for you folks help. I'm at the point where I need to do this on my scratch built #001 and I'm not sure which way to go. #I've been considering using wood as binding because of this, but it may be too hard on my first "F".
Bill ???

[dstretch]

Bill

I really don't know I am not to that stage yet. I have been considering ordering some celluloid binding from LMI, but if I can get some good information here I will try the stuff I have.

Does anyone know how to use the ABS stuff?

[Gibson A5]

Danny, I guess we will just have to keep our eye on this board and see what the more expearenced folks have to say when they find this question. I'll let you know if I find out anything from a different source.
Bill

[dstretch]

Thanks Bill

[dstretch]

Just want to see if anyone has tried the ABS yet. If you have please post some instructions.

Thanks
Danny

[David Houchens]

I think someone mentioned using an ABS type glue from Ace Hardware. It was in one of the earlier threads when Stew Mac quit carring celluloid binding.
Maybe Sunburst. Bryce

[Michael Lewis]

Separate pieces for each color will mean thinner and more flexible stuff to work with. It will also mean that you have to control all the pieces at one time rather than just one. There are trade offs here, neither is a better way, they are just different. Dealing with binding is an acquired skill, not just some directions you can follow. Directions will get you going but you will need to guide everything to the outcome you want.

Binding instructions are rather simple: cut the ledge and make sure it is clean and neat, bend the binding to fit the curves, and glue it into place. There are a heap of differing approaches to the same result, but none of them are really easy if you are looking for very precise and clean work. It takes lots of practice. I have been doing this for more than 24 years and still have difficulties from time to time. Sometimes it requires that the binding be removed and take another run at it. If you let something slide even though you know it should be done better you will always know that THAT work is representing you to anyone who sees it. "it will only be late once, but if it is wrong it will always be that way."

[dstretch]

Thanks Micheal

I really like the advice at the end of your post.

"If you let something slide even though you know it should be done better you will always know that THAT work is representing you to anyone who sees it. #"it will only be late once, but if it is wrong it will always be that way.""

thank you very much.

[Gibson A5]

Danny, Update, I used the StewMac abs binding last week on my first mando (#001)I'm building, an F5 style. I tried heating and bending a seperate strip first to see how it would work and I couldn't get it to stay in shape so I figured it was going to be a pain to work with. I made a block to laminate to strips and used acetone to put them together, too little acetone and it didn't stick, too much and it melted together and thinned. Once it was together, I bent it without heat easly by holding one end with Needle nose pliers and bending it with my fingers, so the acetone had something to do with making it hold it's shape. It went on Ok with "weldon 16" from StewMac and I used a chisel to take it down to the right height, then sanded it. I hope it don't hold stain and make it hard to clean. I'm looking at my first finnish job next. Does anyone know what type of finnish will hold on well to the abs and not pop off later? Thanks,

Bill Pruitt

[Jim Rowland]

As Michael Lewis (how good it is to have him regularly on this forum)has pointed out,the *new* stuff is neither better nor worse..just different with plusses and minuses. Getting a mitre in the tight spot around the scroll button is easier for me



(applying one layer at a time),but the point mitres are tougher because the acetone-pinch method doesn't get me there. I don't like the Weldon 16,although it works ok. I miss the ivory look of the ivoroid,too. The SM stuff cold bends much more easily than the ivoroid..etc. etc. etc. Lynn D. has been using the thin stuff for some time,working one layer at a time. Michael's post tells you about as much as you can learn about it by reading.
Jim

[Gibson A5]

Danny, sample picture of my ABS binding on front.
Bill

[Gibson A5]

Danny, here is the ABS binding on the back.
Bill

[Dale Ludewig]

I agree with Michael wholeheartedly on this:

"If you let something slide even though you know it should be done better you will always know that THAT work is representing you to anyone who sees it. "it will only be late once, but if it is wrong it will always be that way.""

When you're starting building it's easy to say "that's good enough- really close". Later you realize it wasn't good enough, partially because your standards have changed. Partially because your skills have changed.

Perfection in any process is not likely to be achieved, but it's a target I think one should aim for, especially if it's involved with something you really care about. Even if it means ripping the binding back off a part of an instrument when it doesn't quite cut it. Painful, but as Michael said, if you don't, those little flaws will always be there, with your name on them.

[David Houchens]

I have a picture of a 1923 loar With some of those little flaws on it.I've seen a new top shelf Gibson with some of those little flaws. For #001, if the flaw doesn't jump out and smack you, I don't know if I would risk spruce tearout to fix it. Just as gluing binding on is a learning process, to remove it cleanly and safely could also be challenging the first time around. If this mandolin is for sale, then you may want to redo. If it's a keeper, well, you might just call it personality. That top self Gibson I mentioned now retails for over 8,000.00, personality included. Bryce

[dstretch]

I tried to work with the stew mac stuff but could not get it to work for me. I even have the little binding block thingy that stew mac sells to laminate binding together but no luck. I bought some white black white plastic from LMI and it looks good. Very easy to work with, so all is well. I will post some pics in a new post soon.

[Hans]

To anyone that doesn't know yet, Bill James has his new website up and is selling celluloid binding. Site address is:

http://www.axinc.net

The site is set up with a shopping cart, and all but the tortoise bindoing is available now. Tortoise should be available in November. You can also order his tailpiece there.