I just can't seem to get it without hitting other strings or playing it slowly
I just can't seem to get it without hitting other strings or playing it slowly
Start slow, use a metronome. Play 2 notes to the beat, then 4, then 8. Speed up the metronome only after you're doing it right on the slow tempo. Keep your wrist relaxed and grip the pick as lightly as possible.
I don't disagree with jlauber, but I have a counterpoint. I am happy with my tremolo and I like to use metronomes, but I learned tremolo without touching a metronome. I did it by listening to, and then learning, tunes I liked that had tremolo in them. I would listen to each tune and really get that sound in my head and try to make that sound on the mando until I had it down. Now I can apply it to any tune. I did the same thing learning crosspicking. I find pursuing a sound, rather than pursuing "a technique," to be more enjoyable and more successful for me. I agree completely about relaxing, though. That is the key to tremolo and lots of the other techniques.
I like both learning approaches mentioned above, but slow and clean is always better than fast and sloppy.
It also helps to vary the pick angle. A tremelo can sound harsh if the pick is parallel to the strings. Experiment by angling the pick slightly for a softer sound and diminished attack.
Best,
Ken
Less talk, more pick.
A tremolo is nothing fancier than a series of down-up picking at fast speed.
Start with simple, slow down and upstrokes, as in any tune with series of 8th notes. When you can do them smoothly, gradually increase speed. Don't speed up until you have control over your down and upstrokes. Don't hurry, you have all the time in the world to learn tremolos. When it works smoothly and sounds clean, speed up. At the beginning, it's easier to learn tremolos if you have a soft pick.
Good luck with your tremolos! You can practice them in any slow tune, sounds really nice in Monroe's bluegrass waltzes.
I find that the Grisman style pick is easier for tremola. The rounded corners don't seem to catch so much. I only started using one, I plaayed for years before I found one.
I learned my tremelo through listening and repeating, as per Mando Johnny's suggestion, but I'm in the camp that learning methodically with the metronome (or even without one but starting slow) will probably get you farther faster and cleaner than just trying to wing it by ear.
I also agree that the rounded pick is easier to tremelo, but it results in a different sound. For a lot of my playing I prefer a green Dunlop Tortix(?) pick and it's worth learning the tremelo with the pointy pick if that's the sound you're after. You can also rotate the Dunlop to use the round corner for a softer sound, but it's worth having some Golden Gate or similar Dawggy-style picks on hand too.
One other thing that seems to help me is to play a little farther toward the fretboard rather than toward the bridge, but that gets tricky for me on a mando with a fingerboard extension that's not scooped.
pd
"... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams
I don't know if this tip will help in the early stages of learning trem, but it helped smooth out my existing trem technique. I heard of it (indirectly) from Mike Compton. It's called "circular picking" or something like that. Basically, you play your up/down pick strokes in a roughly circular pattern... around and around the same direction. It helps smooth out the more jagged, stop-and-go motion of straight up/down strokes.
Is that your experience? I try to tell beginnerOriginally Posted by (Bluegrasstjej @ Sep. 12 2005, 17:14)
guitarists and mandolinists that a stiff pick is easier
to handle than a flimsy one. More precise,
and more relaxed: why waste energy on deforming a pick? However, if it worked for you I suppose
it's a VERY individual thing.
It is my experience and my teacher in Italy told me that too. Soft picks don't get stuck on the strings; they move instead. But it's a matter of personal taste, of course. Try different picks and choose the one that makes it easier to play. When you know the technique you will also be able to play it with any pick.
I had an instructive seminar with Alison Stephens (the UK's top classical mandolinist) at a recent summer school, where she described and demonstrated the different types of tremolo. In particular, she pointed out that there are two different types of tremolo: measured tremolo and unmeasured tremolo. Very few players can play both: you have trained yourself to do either one or the other.
A measured tremolo is one that was arrived at by a steady sub-division of the beat, i.e. the "start with eighths and then go to sixteenths and thirty-secondths" school of learning tremolo. An unmeasured tremolo is one that was arrived at by the "listen and wing it" method described by jflynnstl above.
Alison was very firm that there is no value statement implied in this distinction; both techniques have their advantages and disadvantages. A measured tremolo can sound mechanical and flat, whereas an unmeasured tremolo tends to be more expressive and more musical. On the other hand, measured tremolo has its own built-in little metronome helping the player to stay in time. Unmeasured tremolo notes have a tendency to become random length and losing the pulse of the music. Big problem for unaccompanied playing, less of a problem if someone else is keeping the beat going. For classical players, one important consideration is that you cannot play duo style with unmeasured tremolo: the bass line must be interspersed into the treble tremolo at regular intervals measured by the number of intervening tremolo strokes. There's a handy way of figuring out what type of tremolo you have: start with single strokes and speed up to your normal tremolo, then slow down again to single strokes. If the transition is more or less smooth and gradual, then you have a measured tremolo; if the transition is marked by a distinct "gear change" (probably also a change in pick attitude and action), then you have an unmeasured tremolo.
Martin
You also need to play measured if you're playing in mandolin orchestras; at least, it's the way it's done. The most important thing i've learned in my life about playing musical instruments, is to pratice slow and master the little things. Playing an instrument is really about mastering a series of small and very specific movements. Hurrying up things just makes them take longer to learn.
Tremolo is much easier with a softer pick, or a rounder pick. But then you may have to learn it all over again if you are going to play with a pointier, harder pick. I think it's best to learn with the kind of pick you intend to use. You can't change picks in mid-song. The most important thing when playing with a stiff pick is to hold it lightly. That's why i like the F1 pick (site seems to be offline), because it's easy to hold it lightly without fear of dropping.
I see your point. It has to do with beginners (maybe)
picking too deep for comfort. Especially if they post
one or two fingers on the top of the mando
(actually I think posting with or without a pickguard
makes it much harder to produce a good, expressive, tremolo).
I've only been playing mandolin for less than 2 years but have received numerous compliments on my tremelo by more experienced players.
Here is my secret:
1. You must have a limp wrist, as if you are "shaking out a washrag" (Thile-"Essential Mandolin")
2. Your grip should be so loose that "it is in danger of falling out of your fingers." (Thile-"Essential Mandolin")
3. I envision my pick as if it is voilin bow and rub the strings, not dig into the strings. (I like to place the back of my picking hand just behind the bridge. But others may tell you different. Use what is most comfortable for you.)
4. Practice picking on the D string DUD using quarter notes, then change to 8th notes, next to 8th triplets and final 16th triplets. I found that I can maintain my timing better using 16th triplets.
5. While maintaining 16th trilpets, play up and down the D scale.
Although I have tried using a metronome, I found that it really doesn't help me much as long as I maintain proper timing internally.
Hope this helps. It took me about a year to get my tremelo to sound good but I still practice perfecting it in my daily practices.
Glenn Nelson
Las Vegas, NV
"Every day brings a chance for you to draw in a breath, kick off your shoes and play your mandolin."
\
Sorry, that doesn't make sense now that I reread it. What I meant to say is that I place the heel/wrist of my picking hand behind the bridge. But I rest it there very lightly without any pressure on the back strings or bridge. It is more of a guide then a resting place.
Glenn Nelson
Las Vegas, NV
"Every day brings a chance for you to draw in a breath, kick off your shoes and play your mandolin."
which is probably the optimal function of a pickguard.\
Sorry, that doesn't make sense now that I reread it. What I meant to say is that I place the heel/wrist of my picking hand behind the bridge. But I rest it there very lightly without any pressure on the back strings or bridge. It is more of a guide then a resting place.
When I first started playing mandolin I came from #playing the banjo so anchoring my two fingers to the pickguard seemed natural. But I found that using the pickguard with my little finger and the finger next to it extended and planted caused my wrist to be too stiff to get a good tremelo. That included extending these two finger even if they only brush the pickguard.
I hold my pick between my thumb and index finger very loose while my other fingers are curled to the plam in a relaxed and loose manner. I found the key to a good tremelo is a very relaxed grip and wrist.
To get this feeling shake your picking hand (with your fingers slightly curled to the palm) and wrist and see how loose and relax you can get it. If you feel this area tightening as you attempt to tremelo, stop and again shake your picking hand until you feel very loose and relaxed.
When I bought my newest mando, an Eastman 805, I don't even miss having a pickguard.
Glenn Nelson
Las Vegas, NV
"Every day brings a chance for you to draw in a breath, kick off your shoes and play your mandolin."
Marilyn Mair did have a tremolo tutorial on her website, and I think there is some in the technique section via the cafe homepage. I learned to play tremelo by trial and error while learning Amazing Grace from Roland White's book. I think it was easier that way because I was already familiar with the tune to know what to listen for from my tremolo. I tried just sitting down and playing tremolo through the scales but I didn't really know how it should sound so it was frustrating. I find tremoloing the A and E strings easier than the G and D to start with. I think its a string tension issue. I suggest practice on a song you know well. Try some simple Bach and Beethoven pieces. Just my take.
I have the same experience. I'm not sure if it's string tension or string thickness that makes the difference.
One more idea: try double-stop tremolo (like Bill Monroe!). Somehow that's easier for me than single-note. I think because there's more energy involved in a longer pick travel, and that helps overcome the resistance of the strings. Or whatever. Double-stop tremolo is fun.
Glauber,
I only say string tension because Mike Compton had me practicing my tremolo using a four finger D chord, so the G string didn't "flop around." He had me work my way up and down the strings two at a time. I also found the tremolo to be more demanding when I had Thomastik-Infeld Mediums on my mando.
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