Any advantage to 20's aluminum bridges?

**OregonMike** · Aug-09-2005, 1:38pm

Just curious as I'm bridge shopping for my '24 Snakehead and figured I'd go with adjustable ebony but always wondered why aluminum didn't catch on? No acoustical properties?

Thanks, Mike

**Lane Pryce** · Aug-09-2005, 1:47pm

A friend of mine has a A50 with the bridge you are referring to.It looks kinda funky sitting up there.One issue with his is the strings dug into the aluminum strip on the saddle;hence many string breaks.Go with a traditional ebony bridge and enjoy. Lp

**8ch(pl)** · Aug-09-2005, 2:51pm

There is one on The Appollon Loar, apparently, Dave Appollon prefered the aluminum bridge. I believe I have seen them in pictures on an A3 Whiteface, if that was original they predate the Loar era a few years.

**Eugene** · Aug-09-2005, 3:29pm

A friend of mine has a 1921 A-2 with the aluminum saddled; it is in great condition and sounds excellent. #If I recall correctly, here in the office and away from appropriate reference, aluminum bridge saddles were only stock hardware on Gibson mandolins in 1921. #The modern process to produce commercial quantities of aluminum didn't exist until the late 1800s. #At the time, aluminum was considered a wondrous modern material and used in the construction of anything in which it could be used and touted (there were even non-Gibson mandolins and guitars produced with cast aluminum backs for the Merrill label). #The aluminum-saddled bridges were Gibson's first efforts at an adjustable bridge, and I suspect they just thought the newfangled material was worth an effort on the adjustable portion of their newfangled bridges. #Pure speculation: I'd guess the material was more expensive than ebony at that time, and that might be as good a reason as any for Gibson to have abandonned aluminum. #Perhaps somebody with more profound insight will offer it.

**Jim Garber** · Aug-09-2005, 3:32pm

While we are waiting for profound insight, here is a pic of the aluminum bridge on my 1921 brown Gibson A. The most annoying things are those screw post diggin into my right hand. I was trying to find some sort of rubber grommet to cap them with.

Jim

**danb** · Aug-09-2005, 4:43pm

Jim, Yours is missing the "lock nut" wheels that go on top..

it should look like this:

**danb** · Aug-09-2005, 4:45pm

I've had one original, one repro. They were a bit brighter, maybe more brittle sounding. Would work well on an over-bassy mandolin perhaps. Evan Reilley on the board here has experimented in more detail than I have (I'm pretty sure he was the one who helped hook me up with a loar-spec aluminum repro as long as 10 years ago!)

I wonder what's really the goal of a bridge.. transmit as much as possible? filter out some unpleasant stuff? both?

**danb** · Aug-09-2005, 4:49pm

1921 was an interesting year at Gibson. They must have been suffering- in 1916 & 1917 they made a TON of instruments.. a huge fad.. then it all started to come down in volume. They tried to improve- the first experimental adjustible bridges & truss rods appear in late '21. Then Lloyd got involved.. quite a bit of re-tooling.. but those 1921 instruments are pretty interesting. Nickel silver truss rod covers, often the truss rod hole cuth through the inlay.. those prototype adjustible bridges.. they thickened the saddle after that first try..

**Jim Garber** · Aug-09-2005, 4:52pm

Originally Posted by (danb @ Aug. 09 2005, 17:43)

Jim, Yours is missing the "lock nut" wheels that go on top..

Daniel:
Any suggestions to where I can find substitutes for those? I am n ot about to put lots of money into this mandolin.

Jim

**danb** · Aug-09-2005, 6:25pm

Hmm- check with Darryl- his bridges have (I believe) matching adjustment wheels. Probably the ones from other good repros are also similar spec? I bet if you ask around a little you'll find some!

Or you could always just salvage a couple from a Loar, eh?

**evanreilly** · Aug-09-2005, 10:20pm

I had a machinist friend mill me a few 'Loar-spec' saddles out of aluminum, and Dan B and I did get acquainted when I supplied one to him.
However, the ones I had made were from the specs for the later ebony saddles. The original Gibson aluminum saddles were much thinner, as pictured above.
I had one on a mandolin that was so bowed in the middle as to be unplayable.
The replacements I tried were not anything I wanted to stay with, sonically.

**mandroid** · Aug-10-2005, 1:15am

Ive got a 21 A0,Alum top ebony bottom, and when I got it sales guy said :if youre tired of its sound , let him know, never happened. got a 21 A4 more recently, newfangled trussrod highlighted by nickle plated TRC, now I like em both... each has its own coloration, and sheraton-brown vs. redishburst too..
mine sits up higher, no 'locknuts' needed, no screwpost sticking out [maybe a 16th"]

**Ken Waltham** · Aug-10-2005, 5:57am

Yeah, they only appear in 1921.
I don't think they ever had "lock nuts" on the top, those are add ons by someone...
I think the idea was projection, more treble.

**luckylarue** · Aug-10-2005, 9:19am

So, are the lock nuts original? I have the same problem w/ my '23 A - potruding screw posts. Irritating on the right hand. The exhisting bridge is not original. Why the extra length on the screw posts?

**danb** · Aug-10-2005, 10:05am

They are original. I have a number of photos of them like that, some on "Serial illegible" mandos.. I've seen enough that I am convinced they aren't a contrivance.

**Lane Pryce** · Aug-10-2005, 10:38am

Did Gibson ever use the aluminum overlay on an ebony saddle? The owner of the A50 I mentioned at the start of this thread believes the bridge to be original.All of the A40's and 50's I have seen have had ebony or rosewood bridges. Lp

**evanreilly** · Aug-10-2005, 11:03am

I've never seen what I believe is an original (OEM) Gibson composaite saddle. I've tried dozens of combinations, and my fave composite saddle is ebony, with a cap of Fossil Ivory.

**OregonMike** · Aug-10-2005, 11:36am

Awesome input guys, thanks! I work in a Boeing plant where we machine aluminum and titanium all day and I also have mandolins on the brain. I'll go with the ebony Loar copy.

Best, OregonMike

**Darryl Wolfe** · Aug-10-2005, 12:18pm

The lock nuts on top are original...I've seen 10-20 examples with them..as a matter of fact, I talk Steve Kaufman into letting me have his and in turn cutting the posts shorter...my first Loar copy bridge was made shortly after that.

jgarber, I have the wheels, you can have 2..pm me..you won't find anything at the hardware store with a 5-40 thread.

dgw

**Bob A** · Aug-10-2005, 11:08pm

The old aluminum saddles have always intrigued me, though I've never had a mandolin with one.

There are so many different alloys of aluminum available today that it'd be near impossible to have an aftermarket that was "authentic"; I suppose that might affect the tone. I doubt there's anyone around who could tell you just what the old Gibson saddles were made of, without a lot of expensive metallurgical testing. But if anyone could, it'd be the guys at Boeing.

You'd need an original saddle to test, and I don't know how much of it would be consumed by the testing.

Geez, a titanium saddle would be pretty 21st century, wouldn't it?

**evanreilly** · Aug-11-2005, 9:52am

Titanium saddle! And I thought my carbon fiber saddle was high-tech!

**OregonMike** · Aug-11-2005, 5:38pm

Amazing that Evan had already machined some aluminum saddles to try 'em out. I can't imagine a better group of mando consultants than on this board!

Well I'm sure I could find someone to analyze the chemical makeup of the aluminum but not if it doesn't have any acoustic value. A titanium tailpiece would be fun but i think i'll invest my time in pickin'.

Cheers, Mike

**Martin Jonas** · Aug-22-2005, 11:00am

Speaking of aluminium/titanium saddles, the one in the picture below (from Ebay) does spring to mind. #The instrument is a Loveri bowlback, at least 100 years old, but the chances on the bridge being original are, errr, slim. #I wouldn't bet on its acoustic properties, but it certainly looks space-age.

Martin