fir as tonewood?

[Dale Ludewig]

John- no, this was shake; at least it would seem so. Most all of the boards, and the tree must have been about 24" in diameter,- the outside boards, let's say almost all the way in to the center, were loose where the growth rings joined. Junk. Shame, because the wood had been air dried and had this beautiful purple color in it. The folks at the sawmill said that the tree had probably been standing alone, or at least not sheltered, and had been wind blown for years, waving back and forth with the weight of the walnut "crown", and the growth rings just couldn't get a grip on each other. First time I'd ever seen it, although I'd heard of it.

I have also seen lightning struck trees that you couldn't imagine the damage done by looking at it. But this weren't that. From your experience with your Wood-Mizer, I'll bet you've seen all sorts of things.

My, we're wondering off topic again, aren't we? Ah, what fun. I was wondering about that refrigerator magnet also. I have an Elvis one. I wonder if he'd stick to that board.?

[Mario Proulx]

Has anyone tried Balsam Fir as a mando top, yet? Is it a true fir, BTW?

I've used Balsam for back braces on many of my guitars, and I've also used it for a violin top, and while I'm no hot-shoe fiddle maker, this one has great tone, and a friend who plays at a symphony took it over to show their head violinist, who played it for 20 minutes, like a kid with a new toy, and proclaimed it as being very, very good. Still sounds like dog-do when I play it, but that's another story...

Anyhow, I'm always on the lookout for a piece large enough to try on a mandolin, as it holds much promise. Stuff is fairly light(about the weight of the densest red spruce I've handled), pretty, and very lively. One of my neighbors has a large enough(for mandolins) one in his yard, but I think he'd miss it....

[sunburst]

Mario, Balsam fir (Abies balsamea) is a true fir. It is almost identical to the Frasier fir (Abies fraserie) that I'm more familiar with.
Neither gets used much for lumber, and I haven't seen any big pieces of the wood, but the samples I've seen look like they would make an attractive top. I'd try it. The "numbers" look a little better than Engelmann spruce.

[Mario Proulx]

Neither gets used much for lumber

Around here(I'm surrounded by lumber, plywood, and paper mills...), Balsam gets trucked in to the mill yards and lumped in with the spruce and pines. As lumber, it's all the same to them(that's the "SPF" rating thing...), but paper mills hate them, for their pitch screws up the paper machine's wet felts.
I've seen 2x10's of balsam(easy to find in the pile by its weight and smell and distinct growth rings), but none were quartered right across(enough for a violin, though <bg&gt.

I've never looked at the numbers, as I don't believe in them anyhow(too general to mean anything, as wood varies so much), but the stuff has alwayd struck me as being very musical and lively, espcially when old and seasoned.

Just need to find that one big log in the mill yard...., or glue up 4 pieces for a top.

Thanks for clarifying that it is indeed a true Fir; always wondered about that!

[sunburst]

If you find that tree, let me know. I'd like to try some.
How easy would it be to buy a standing tree somewhere?

[arbarnhart]

I found a pretty good, though somewhat limited, page on tonewoods at Wings Guitar. It has numbers and observations. The doug fir info is admittedly second hand, though.

[Carly]

Quote: "I found a pretty good, though somewhat limited, page on tonewoods at Wings Guitar. It has numbers and observations. The doug fir info is admittedly second hand, though."

What is 'limited' and 'second hand' about it?

Carly

[Spruce]

"What is 'limited' and 'second hand' about it?"

It is limited in the sense that it only contained info on certain tonewoods, and didn't really discuss, for example, redwood, cedar, European spruce, etc. etc...
No big deal, but you did ask...

It's "second hand" in it's discussion of the usage of Douglas Fir for tonewood by it's own admission, namely:

"We don't have any experience with it yet"

I did enjoy reading their take on tonewoods, however, especially this little paragraph:

"We use quarter-sawn Eastern Clear White Pine with close parallel grain structures,
from split billets. #And we really like the sound of it. It sounds a little warmer, and with a
little better bass response (due to it's being a little less stiff), #than the Spruces, and it
looks superb. Also, like Spruce, a Clear Pine top sounds better with age, after all the
wood's resins have crystallized. When properly quartered, it is an excellent
"tonewood", and a wonderful alternative to spruce. Eastern Clear White Pine, has a
light to yellowish color, and looks very similar to Red Spruce. Grain patterns are similar.
This is our preferred topwood."

Very interesting....