Another experiment by a foolish man.

**hungry mountain boy** · Jul-15-2005, 2:56pm

I was wondering if you guys know or suspect if that you sanded the finish thinner on a Pacific Rim mandolin on the top and back if it would help tone and or volume, I'm not concerned about ruining looks or value for resale. I wonder because of the claims that the F-9 finish being said to help the tone. Thanks. Glenn

**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-15-2005, 5:26pm

You question the claims that the F-9 finish being said to help the tone, and then want to remove the finish from another instrument? I'm not seeing the logic. You'll learn more from taking all the finish off a real F-9 (I dare ya) so you can compare the before and after.

Finishes are really really thin, so it'd never be a matter of degree of thickness, it would be raw or finished.

**Dale Ludewig** · Jul-15-2005, 5:44pm

Glenn- I agree with Paul. I wouldn't recommend it. Unless the finish looks like one of those epoxy finished clocks/ bar tops- don't ruin that instrument. I don't think it's going to help the tone. IMHO, real tone comes from the graduations on the top, and the whole package. On a PacRim, and I might be wrong, it's going to ruin its resale value and not improve the tone diddly squat.

And as Paul said, some finishes are very thin and must be cared for. For good reason. IMHO.

**hungry mountain boy** · Jul-15-2005, 5:45pm

Well the mandolin in question is a Michael Kelly legacy solid, the finish appeared to my untrained eye to be thick on it. Also I heard discussion mabye by big joe, when talking about the different gibsons that the F-9 may be a bit more open or broken in sounding due to its minimal finish in comparison with the other gibsons.
So I thought that maybe if I sanded down some of my "thick" Michael Kelly finish that it would maybe improve tone and or volume? Glenn hurley

**pickinNgrinnin** · Jul-15-2005, 5:46pm

[QUOTE]Finishes are really really thin

Even on the Pac Rim Mandos?? Many of them appear to be dipped in a vat of finish. I'm guessing he believes the finish is already (overly) heavy on his Pac Rim and he wants to thin it out. The F9's finish is already applied thin.

I would be interested to hear your results Glen. It would be a less expensive experiement (OK, that's obvious) to try this on your Pac Rim than on an F9

**hungry mountain boy** · Jul-15-2005, 5:47pm

Thanks for the concerns, I guess there's only one way to find out. I have $250.00 in the mandolin, and think I can afford to ruin the resale and keep it for my second mandolin. Glenn

**Professor PT** · Jul-15-2005, 6:36pm

I was thinking of doing the same to my Fender A. I only paid $130 for it, so it's definitely not an issue of money. By the way, I own an F-9 and really love the tone. I don't think taking the finish off my Fender will make it sound anywhere near the Gibson, but I don't think it will hurt it either.

**mandoman15** · Jul-15-2005, 6:46pm

btw if you do end up taking the finish off the pac, and it doesn't improve the tone, you;ve now got a blonde original mandolin, which depending how you feel on the suvject you can refinish anyway you want, it could turnout to be a pretty cool project.

**Michael Gowell** · Jul-15-2005, 6:58pm

I think I recall reading an article in the old 'Mandolin World News' which adressed the topic of stripping off an overly-thick finish from an inexpensive mandolin to improve the tone. #They recommended it as a viable project and went through the process step by step. #If anyone can locate & cite that article it might be helpful.

**pickinNgrinnin** · Jul-15-2005, 9:13pm

A lot of the bad bursts you see on the Pac Rims would probably look better stripped down to the wood and evenly stained with a medium tone stain.

I remember a comment here from a guy that stripped down his Pac and the neck came separated from the joint. In this case, the 3" coat of finish appeared to help hold the neck
in place

**fatt-dad** · Jul-15-2005, 9:26pm

But would you really "sand" it off? I would wonder about using paint stripper (i.e., methylene chloride) along, of course, with plenty of ventilation and some rubber gloves. Then again, what do I know?

fatt kind-of-interested-in-this-project dad

**pickinNgrinnin** · Jul-15-2005, 9:31pm

I was thinking more on the lines of some coarse steel wool to start. Not that I know anything about this process

pickinN - also - mildly - interested - in - this - project grinnin HA!

**mandowoulfe** · Jul-15-2005, 10:16pm

I started doing this to an all black Rogue last week. Steel wool wouldn't touch it. It took some 80 grit and a lot of elbow grease to see any wood. I'm thinking about just trying to even it out and shoot some black lacquer on it. Any suggestions?

**hungry mountain boy** · Jul-16-2005, 12:12am

I was not aiming at removing the finish, just thinning it down. I used some (220 I think?) fine sandpaper and just knocked the gloss off, I can't really tell any difference in the tone or volume, but maybe I haven't taken it down enough to make a difference, it to me looks less "cheapy" with the matt looking finish from the sanding. I don't know if i'll take any more off or not. I would like to read the article mentioned above if anyone finds it. Glenn Hurley a.k.a. "The Foolish Man"

**Michael Lewis** · Jul-16-2005, 12:12am

The main impediment to good tone and volume on a Pac rim mando is not likely to be the finish. As Dale stated previously, it is the graduations and arching. There are several things you could do like remove the back and regraduate the top and back, then refinish it with a thin finish. This is a bunch of work if you know what you are doing, and likely a disaster if you are new at this sort of activity.

If you just want to "improve" your mandolin keep fairly fresh strings on it, keep it tuned, and play it with a vigorous right hand and heavy pick. It is amazing how good a fairly inexpensive mandolin can sound when played masterfully.

**Frank Ford** · Jul-16-2005, 12:15am

Listen to Michael -

He knows of what he speaks!

**steve in tampa** · Jul-16-2005, 3:49am

I have stripped the finish off of a couple electric guitars, and one acoustic. It is a tedious task and lots of chemical fumes and dust. Has not ever resulted in a better sound or higher value, just a different looking instrument. It was a nice change going from a purple to natural color on a bass I got in a trade. Still find purple dust in my shop in strange places after 11 years. THe acoustic guitar I stripped was not a good sounding one to begin with and ended up as a playable work of art that eventually got the Townsend treatment at a wild college party.
I you have ht ehankering to strip the finish off of something, try a car. It is easier, and more rewarding.

**8ch(pl)** · Jul-16-2005, 5:14am

you need to go a lot finer than 220 grit. Since you have started it,I would recommend you use Silicon Carbide in 240, 280, 320, 360, 400 and 600. sand with the grain by hand and don't take too much down with the courser grits, just go over the surface completely.. The last couple can be wet sanded if you know you still have finish on the top. You csn try some finer steel wool if you like, then rubbing and polishing compounds, the red and green Turtle Wax compounds should do. Do everything by hand.

**mandoman15** · Jul-16-2005, 1:34pm

i'm with glen, i was taking the finish off a chep ukulele with an orbital, the finish was so thick i thought i could speed up the process using a belt sander... well i've got pictures and i'll post them as soon as i get home,they're good for a laugh...

**hungry mountain boy** · Jul-16-2005, 2:59pm

Thanks for all the posts, for the time being I'm just going to play it more often, its my second mandolin. I may get a good set up for christmas. This is my intention, we'll see if my foolishness lays dorment long enough for it to happen. Thanks. Glenn Hurley

**mandowoulfe** · Jul-16-2005, 6:10pm

Well, what kind of advice would you give to a guy that already started sanding? I've got 2 spots on the back that are down to the wood. The top has been lightly sanded with some 600 grit. This mando is cheap and I have another to play, so I wanted to use it as a learning tool, but would really like to get it playable and looking good again. I really have no plan, I just new I wanted to refinish it. No idea of type of finish or anything, so advice about any step of the process (sanding, wet sanding, type of finish, etc.) would be aprreciated.

Thanks