Tools for building

[Steve Davis]

I have very few tools and would like to make mandolins. It seems that bandsaws and drill presses are handy and a Dremel or some similar tool. My question is what size bandsaw would I have to buy for practical construction. Similarly: how big a drill press, what kind of router and bits, what kind of Dremel or other. Am I missing something? Maybe there is a good book I should read first. On the other hand, is it possible to hand-build a good mandolin with only hand tools and if so which ones? Do you use a router table? I may be ignorant but I'm not stupid. Thanks for any suggestions. -Steve

[Steve Davis]

Maybe I'm stupider than I thought. Did I already post this? (I hope not.) Guess I'm still in the dark. Altzheimers is a terrible thing to witness but sharing the same DNA is sometimes unnerving. Simple forgetting seems to assume greater significance.

[Stephanie Reiser]

For your first mandolin or two, I would invest in a minimum of tools. The Dremel is good, but I built my very first mandolin without one. I cant imagine that now. Chisels and a couple of gouges are good. You can make your chisels out of old files. It is possible to make quality stringed instruments with only handtools. Think of the 18th century fellows. As you accumulate desire and skill, then perhaps you can add some nice power tools, but I would start small unless your credit card has lots of room and you are sure of this new hobby.

[sunburst]

This comes up from time to time. Once before, Dave Cohen suggested books. Since you mentioned that in your post, I'll recomend the Bob Benedetto archtop guitar book, Understanding Wood by R. Bruce Hoadley (as always), and, with some reservation, the Siminoff mandolin book.
Any wood working text, or tool book is worth checking out. There's always more to learn about wood and tools.

[Dave Cohen]

I second the books and the chisels. Add a block plane, and retrofit it with a Ron Hock iron. A coping saw will obviate the expense of a band saw for a little while (first few instruments), and a back saw plus a couple of exacto saws (small "razor" back saws, relatively cheap) are extremely handy, even when you have a shop full of machinery.

In past threads, I have emphasized layout tools and edge tools, rationalizing that instrument making is woodworking. I got some argument from some neophytes who seemed to think that machines would help them make a better instrument. Not! Machines will remove a lot of (waste) wood rapidly, but they won't help you a bit with [I]what[I] part of the piece of wood to remove. You need to learn (a) how to set up an operation before making any cuts, and (b)what wood does under the action of different edge tools, b/c the principles are the same with machines as they are with hand tools. I have a shop full of machines which I use gratefully every day, but part of my knowledge of how to use them came from what I learned about using hand tools. That, plus the hand tools are sometimes just as fast for a single operation. The machinery really comes into its own when you use it for repetitive operations.

Consider taking a basic woodworking class. You will learn an awful lot that will save you a lot of time, money, and grief. Sharpening is extremely important, as is learning how to do layout with squares, gauges, etc.

http://www.erols.com/judcohen

[Darren Kern]

I haven't started building yet, but I've been doing a LOT of research before I get started, and another book I would recommend in addition to the others is Choosing & Using Hand Tools by Andy Rae. #You can buy it or order it at your local Barnes and Noble bookstore. #I like this book because it assumes no prior knowledge of any woodworking tools at all, which is what I need.

[Paul Hostetter]

Hear hear! I've been making many of my own hand tools for years, and that's certainly where I'd start too. In fact, just today I made myself two new small palm gouges with skewed, flat blades, to replace a couple of earlier ones that sharpened themselves out of usefulness. I tried two to see how the steel in each holds an edge after tempering and hardening.



The one on the right is a recycled stonemason’s chisel. The one on the left used to be a 3/16" chainsaw file. I heated it with a torch and hammered it on an anvil to get the final shape, and then tempered it in a flame, drawing a straw color to the edge. If you'd like to know more about this, get a book called The Complete Modern Blacksmith by Alexander Weygers. It's published by Ten Speed Press. You can, in many cases, make better tools than you can buy. Or you can restore and adapt cast-offs you can find at the flea market and so on.

The little straight one in the center is made from a broken 1/8" drill. It’s extremely helpful. No heat treatment, it just holds and edge and keeps on going. I have had it for around 25 years.

That said, the three power tools that comprise the core of my loud, dusty shop area, and the ones I'd still start over with again all these years later, are a simple 14" bandsaw, a good drill press (which can also be a lathe, milling machine and much else), and a 6x48" belt sander. Dremels are nice, but not at the top of my list.

[Paul Hostetter]

Here are a couple of views of the more promising of the two chisels I made today. You might still be able to see the file teeth in the shank.





I find this little bent flat "gouge" extremely useful in operations like hand-cutting nut guitar saddle slots, paring wood off the heels of neck during neck resets, roughing in violin bridge feet, and lots of other things. The point of the skew is to allow full view of a rockable straight sharp edge, without your own hand being in the way. Since I keep them real sharp, I burn through one about every 4-5 years.

[Stephanie Reiser]

Paul, I loved your post! Making tools for a specific task has always been an interest of mine. Heck, I even made my own thickness gauge that served me well for the first two instruments I built. Having studied Early American Industial Arts in college, I came away with a well-earned respect for the quality of workmanship the craftspersons of yesteryear performed. Your chisels are wonderful. I NEVER buy chisels, because they are so easy to make, even if you dont own a forge and anvil as I do. One of my favorites is a teeny one made from a thin file, reshaped and tempered to a straw color. I'd show a pic but my digital is a cheapy that doesnt show close-ups well. And if you are not into making chisels, scout out the various yard sales that seem to abound this time of year. Old Buck Brothers chisels are very good, and can be had for a song, and are more plentiful than you'd think. The point is as Dave Cohen says: Learn what those powertools do first, before investing in them, for they can remove wood at an alarming rate. Although I now use a Dremel for cutting the binding ledge, it makes a sound mindful of fingers in a blender. But it works well. So, that and a drillpress would possibly be my first choices.
Good luck! and let us know how you make out.

[Mike Crocker]

Most of the important points have been made, but if I had to do my tool buying over again I would start with measurement tools.

For repairs and set-up I find myself always reaching for a small rule, small adjustable square, calipers, and dividers. Small hand tools would come next, needle, nut, and fret files, cabinet scrapers, chisels, and very sharp knives (I like Olfa retractibles), planes, and good quality drill bits, abrasives, and fine saws (like those cool oriental draw saws).

As for power tools, a table top drill press and band saw are adequate, and a good sanding station (I've got both a larger and smaller belt/disc unit, the small one is great for nuts and saddles), and bolt them down to a sturdy unmovable table. Dremels are cool, but get lots of accessories.

Above all, buy quality if you buy at all. Much of the time you can make your tools, like scrapers, chisels, knives, jigs, forms and the like.

Don't forget a well lit work station, and safety items (glasses, muffs, fire extinguisher). Be clean and organized.

Peace, Mooh.

[Paul Hostetter]

Good thought about measuring tools. Here's one of my favorites (or 3" of it):



It's a Starrett about 24" long and real heavy because it's precision machined, not stamped. I got it and several sets of Starrett dividers at the flea, all for under $10, including a big set of dividers that goes to about 8" and a tiny set that goes to maybe 1" that is so surgically precise that I'm almost embarrassed to own something so good, except they can lay out string spreads and so on so well that I'd never be able to do without them.

100ths of an inch are better than metric when it comes to laying out one-off fret scales, which I seem to do fairly often. I love this rule. With Doug Sparling's Fretcalc, all scale layout becomes a breeze.

[arbarnhart]

You need a well lit workbench with good clamping options for starters.

You need to be able to remove a lot of wood quickly for rough shaping. You need to be able to do some fine shaping and some very fine shaping (2 distinctly different activities). Sometimes shaping is scooping. Sometimes shaping is carving. You need to make some cuts that are exactly straight, including some that are to a set depth and have a thin kerf. You need to be able to make wood perfectly flat. You need to be able to measure things precisely. Finishing is another cannaworms I am leaving closed.

For each of the aforementioned operations, you should have a tool that does the job properly. Whether it is an electric tool or hand tool is up to your tastes and budget, though if you are planning to do very much you probably want to have some type of electric saw (table, band or circular) for initial cutting of lumber to rough dimensions.

[Tom C]

" A coping saw will obviate the expense of a band saw for a little while "

-That was my thought at first until I got it in my hands. Then I thought to my self(maybe even out loud) -There's no way I can cut the top plate shape with a good vertical cut. But I would think about bringing it to a person who make furniture to do those cuts.

[kvk]

I don't know much at all as all I built is an IV kit but my favorite tool I got for that was a set of scrapers. These were just $15. They are three flat plats of steel-- one rectangle, one rectange with curved ends, and one french curve. You 'burnish' the the end to roll over a little lip using a hard piece of metal like the side of a drill bit. You can then use it for fine planing, shaping, smoothing. Works great on maple. Will not remove a lot of material but for the last bit of shaping and smoothing, they are great (that's all you need with the IV kti). There's a great article on the stewmac site on how to burnish scrapers. Just look up the scrapers and/or scraper burnisher. Don't bother buying a burnisher though as the side of a drill bit or screw driver works fine.

Violin clamps are cheap and you need a dozen or two. You could not make them as cheap as you can buy them.

[Steve Davis]

Thanks all for the generous feedback. I think I will probably start with a kit and do most of the work at first by hand. I'm working on the Benedetto book now, (which is excellent,) and I guess I should get the Siminoff book and the Hoadley book as well.

[otterly2k]

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to say "clamps". Seems to me that you need a lot of them, and a few different shapes of them. C clamps, bar or spool clamps, cams, clothespins or binder clips, e-z release masking tape, etc.

[arbarnhart]

One of the most used general shop items is the spring clamp. I like to have one or two almost always within reach for when you get into one of those inevitable situations where you have to let go of something to free your hands up to deal with the next step, but you can't let go or things will fall apart. I stood alone in my garage for about an hour late one night holding strakes (the overlapping boards that look kinda like siding) in place on the bottom of a boat because I didn't have them clamped adequately and they would have slipped off with a domino effect if I left them for even a few seconds. Fortunately I had mixed some fast hardener in so the epoxy set up pretty well in about an hour, allowing me to get to more clamps.

[Steve Davis]

What about the red books from GAL or the tool book? Who has the best plans to follow (at first at least.) Actually I think I'd like to make a two-point C# type. I'm thinking it would sound like an A but look more "contemporary." Despite rumors to the contrary, ignorance is not always bliss.

[Stephanie Reiser]

Clamps were mentioned, by Otterly and KVK, I believe.
Here is a pic of some really easy spool clamps you can make from a dowel and some bolts. Really super easy, and you will be proud of yourself. Making the tools is half the fun, for me anyway.

[Ed Ashley]

There is a discussion from the old Sat Morning luthiers Corner, on Mandozine, which might be useful, see http://www.mandozine.com/resources/SMLC/index.php