Bridge lean question

[Perilous Deep]

So recently I've noticed that my bridge is leaning towards the fretboard some. The thing is, it's not kind of lean I'm accustomed to, where the feet of the bridge get pulled slightly up from the soundboard. The feet are still flush, but it seems like the screws holding the saddle on have started to lean, so the saddle is no longer parallel to the top of the bridge. I tried to get it to come out in the photo, with limited success.



My questions are:
1) how much of a problem is this? Intonation is still fine at the 12th fret. But this could change the break angle slightly, right? Is it worth replacing the bridge over?
2) have you seen this before? How can I keep it from getting worse and/or happening again?

[pops1]

It happens, I would straighten it up and recheck intonation. If it is in now you may have to move the bridge when it is straight. I have to move mine more in winter because it is much higher than in summer with drier winter air and lower with humid summer air.

[Perilous Deep]

But it appears that the screws are no longer perpendicular to the saddle, i.e. that they've been bent. If that's the case, straightening it up seems like it would sound easier than it is. Surely trying to bend the metal screws by force isn't good for the strength of the bridge.

[George R. Lane]

It could be the screws are bent or the holes in the saddle for the screws have enlarged. If it were mine, I would mark the location of the bridge feet (use blue or green masking tape). Then loosen all the strings, remove and inspect the bridge carefully. If the screws are bent you can get replacements at a hardware store. If the saddle is bad then contact the builder and see if they can provide a replacement. Good Luck.

[pops1]

The screws may be not as tight in the foot as they should be, or it may look like the screw is bent as there is some play in the wheel and that is where you are seeing it looks like it is bent. It may have been put in crooked, but I would guess if you straighten it all will be fine. I don't loosen the strings, but put the mandolin in my lap headstock away from me and take the bridge in both hands a pull it straight. May seem intimidating, but I have done this for decades without problems. You are only trying to move it a very small amount. If you have to do it twice that is better than going too far. If you feel better loosening the strings by all means do so, but not too loose, just enough to make moving the bridge easier.

[Perilous Deep]

Thanks to both of you. I got some additional advice of-board; seems that the ebony can expand and stretch a bit over time, allowing the threaded posts to lean. It was challenging to try to move the saddle without moving the bridge foot, but everything's sitting a little closer to upright now.

[Ivan Kelsall]

That can also happen if the holes in the bridge saddle for the screw threads are a tad too wide. If it was my mandolin,i'd slacken the strings,remove the bridge & inspect the screw threads to see if they are indeed bent. I had to do that with the floating bridge on a one time owned Jazz guitar. I clamped the bridge foot firmly in a vice,& used a pair of pliers to bend them straight again. It was easy to do & took all of 5 minutes. You need to clamp the bridge foot to prevent the steel screw threads from ''possibly'' splitting the wood. The steel screw threads are pretty soft(ish),so easy does it,
Ivan

[dhergert]

Here's another through examination of this topic:

Bridge Posts Leaning

My 2002 F-9 mandolin bridge and saddle do the same thing. I've checked the posts and they are straight. I've tried "burping" the saddle numerous times, it always slips back. The bridge is seated properly...

I use Flat Tops because I prefer their tone; the one thing that I see consistently is that flat wound or flat top strings don't provide enough friction to hold the saddle perpendicular to the bridge against the pressure of the strings, so if there is enough space in the saddle post holes, it will slip and lean toward the fingerboard.

Also, a well-used bridge that has been around the block a few times may have the saddle post holes become a little sloppy, and as such may tend to do this more.

In my case, it is stable and causes no stress or damage and the mandolin sounds good. I've put my concerns to rest about it.

[Stephen Perry]

Can adjust the angle at the seating surfaces of the saddle against wheels to favor a bit of away-from-fingerboard bias. Don't go wild with this - easy to over salt the soup!

[Joey Anchors]

This is why I love the Brekke "Original " bridges.. no lean!

[Ivan Kelsall]

As a rider to my last post - i just played both my Weber & Ellis mandolins & both have a leaning saddle !. Both the bridges are seated as perfectly as you could wish on the mandolin top. There's no intonation errors anywhere,so i think it's just one of those things that happen - they lean !. However,the guitar bridge that i mentioned did have bent screw threads,but it was also leaning much more than the slight lean on my mandolins,
Ivan

[Victor Daniel]

This happens frequently on one of my mandolins. When restringing I frequently check the angle of the tilt. If it starts to lean a bit I will force it back into upright position or even back toward the tailpiece slightly to compensate for the forward movement on the saddle from the strings winding up to full tension. If already strung up to full tension, I would loosen the strings enough to tilt it upright. Sometimes I would even keep one hand on the bridge while using the other hand to twist the tuners up to tension. If you monkey around with it enough you should be able to get her sitting vertical.

[Folkmusician.com]

Looking at the pic there, I think Stephen has a good recommendation... It looks like the bottom of the saddle where it seats to the thumbwheel is cut to cause a slight forward lean. It is probably a combination of things, but that would be contributing. I would just recut this and make sure the posts are well seated. No need for a new bridge.

[dhergert]

Hmmm... Does that raise the possibility that the saddle is on backwards?

[pops1]

Can't tell from the pic, the top of the bridge angle seems wrong. Can you post a pic of the top of the saddle.

[sblock]

So long as the amount of lean is small, and that it is associated entirely with the saddle -- not the bridge base -- and that the intonation is not off, then there is nothing to be concerned about. Tone will not be impaired. Just leave it alone.

In all likelihood, the metal bridge posts are not bent (this can happen, but it is is very rare). More likely, the holes in the saddle have a bit of extra room around the posts, and this play allows the lean. There HAS to be a bit of play in these saddle holes, in fact, because this play makes it possible, for example, to raise the bass side of the bridge a bit higher than the treble sides, which is important.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I re-strung my Weber yesterday after posting, & i made sure that the bridge 'foot' was fitting correctly - the 'saddle lean' was still there. It plays perfectly = why worry ?,
Ivan

[Perilous Deep]

I see what you all mean about the saddle having a slight angle relative to the thumbwheels, but I think it's an optical effect of the picture. I looked closely at the bridge this morning in person--sorry, wasn't getting auto-notifications yesterday for some reason--and I think the saddle feet are pretty square to the wheels. I can see the logic in giving those a slight bias towards the tailpiece, but given that the intonation is good, there's no worry of damage, and the lean is mainly correctable from time to time, I will probably leave well enough alone.

Here's a shot of the top of the saddle, by the way.

[pops1]

I think you are right, the saddle is correct and most mandolins lean at some time. Some, I have one, leans slightly all the time. I think the studs were put in a little crooked. It doesn't bother anything and plays well, sounds good, so I leave it. I have trimmed the bottom of the saddle to promote the rearward lean, but haven't on this one.

[Dolamon]

I misread the title ... I thought this subject somehow referred to Lee Marvin in Cat Balou.

Sorry.