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Thread: Tubby

  1. #1
    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Tubby

    I have heard people talk about a mandolin sounding "Tubby." Usually inferring it in a pejorative way but sometimes in a favorable way.

    To be honest I'm not sure what Tubby refers to...It seems to be a charismatic of oval hole older Gibson mandolins.

    Any comments?

    Billy

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  2. #2
    Registered User Ky Slim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Well, I had to google "pejorative" and I really don't think tubby tone is something that should be shown contempt or disapproval but it probably isn't the ideal tone for every situation. Personally, I like tubby sounding mandolins for bluesy and old time sounding stuff. Not so much for bluegrass in a full bluegrass band setting.

    It is so hard to describe tone so here's a couple examples of mandolins that I think sound Tubby... In my opinion....

    I think Compton plays the mandolin on this one with Jack White, maybe not.




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  4. #3
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    I think the mando shares a lot of similarities with the banjo in the way that the tops are "tuned", although the mando does have a few more complex differences. But generally speaking, the easiest way to understand what tubby is, is to listen to an arch top banjo versus a regular banjo which has had the head tuned lower, or looser. It's a common practice among banjo pickers to change their timbre.

    John Hartford is known for playing "tubby" mandos, and Ralph Stanley and Don Reno, arch topped. The differences in timbre should be apparent.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Some past threads on the subject can be found here. In my mind the sound of a teens Gibson A style is tubby but that's just me.
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  7. #5
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    I liken it to the characteristic sound of a paddle-head Gibson oval hole mandolin. Less so for the snakeheads - although they both have, "It."

    There is a, "Pop" or, "Percussive" nature to the f-hole arch-top. It's just not there on a pre-loar paddle-head. Maybe it's a sustain thing?

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    More emphasis on low/mid rather than higher overtones, "rich" rather than "crisp" tones. Almost never hear f-hole instruments called "tubby," and have never heard a bowl-back referred to as "tubby." Seems to be associated only with oval-hole, carved top instruments, although I'd guess an oval-hole flat-top could be "tubby" (?).
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Agree with Mike. If you have heard an oval hole Gibson you've heard tubby, some more so than others and some like it more than others. For old time, pre BG sound, tubby can't be beat IMHO.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Tubby

    I have a 1916 F-4 that, depending on the strings I'm using, can be described as "tubby". The tubby can be controlled by trying a bunch of different strings until you find the right ones. I've been using D'Addario EFW-74 flat wounds for a couple of years now and liking them a lot for more of a classical or jazzy sound to take advantage of the lower frequency response. It's still kinda hard to overcome "tubby" in a Gibson oval hole mandolin though. ymmv

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  11. #9
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Slim View Post
    Well, I had to google "pejorative" and I really don't think tubby tone is something that should be shown contempt or disapproval but it probably isn't the ideal tone for every situation. Personally, I like tubby sounding mandolins for bluesy and old time sounding stuff. Not so much for bluegrass in a full bluegrass band setting.

    It is so hard to describe tone so here's a couple examples of mandolins that I think sound Tubby... In my opinion....

    I think Compton plays the mandolin on this one with Jack White, maybe not.



    I couldn't find Mike Compton listed on the Cold Mountain soundtrack, though I did find Norman Blake listed as a Mandolin player.
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  12. #10
    Registered User Ky Slim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Quote Originally Posted by willkamm View Post
    I couldn't find Mike Compton listed on the Cold Mountain soundtrack, though I did find Norman Blake listed as a Mandolin player.
    I don't think it's Norman Blake on the Great High Mtn. It could be Jack White I suppose but this gives me reason to believe it's Compton.
    https://youtu.be/8ZXBw-9gyc0

  13. #11
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    I think that most of us have heard a 'tubby' type sound when the G strings get way too old & past it. They sound a dull note that has almost no sustain. Banjos, when they used to use calf skin heads,also had a 'tubbier' sound that the sound of the modern 'plastic' banjo heads. REMO produced the 'Fiberskyn' banjo heads to try to replicate that sound with a partial success,
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  14. #12

    Default Re: Tubby

    The main distinguishing feature of that Mike Compton piece appears to be the right hand style--I'm pretty sure he's not using a pick, and is sorta Frailing. (Or am I wrong?) That will certainly generate what I think of as tubby sound, mostly mids, not too loud, thin and delicate in the trebles. But it doesnt really speak to the characteristics of the instrument. Except that I guess a round-hole is preferable. Sometimes I find an instrument that has a top which is just not very resonant, possibly too thick. In one case a builder I know made some mandos and dolas with pine tops--not sure which pine, eastern white or red. Not a great sound--thuddy.

  15. #13
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    A little trick anyone can do to turn your spitfire f-hole into a tubby mess, is to stick a ball of clay to the center of the back, 50 grams should be enough to hear a significant change, about the size of a golf ball.

    You're adding mass without changing stiffness, which lowers the stiffness to mass ratio. The lower this is, the more tubby your mando will sound. Yes even fhole mandos can sound tubby if not carved in the traditional sense.

  16. #14
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Slim View Post
    I don't think it's Norman Blake on the Great High Mtn. It could be Jack White I suppose but this gives me reason to believe it's Compton.
    https://youtu.be/8ZXBw-9gyc0
    Okay. It was just that I didn't see him name anywhere on the soundtrack.
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
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    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  17. #15
    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Soo..

    I read a bunch of posts, (thanks MikeEdgerton) et al,

    I also spent some serious time comparing my four mandolins, two oval holes and two F holes.


    1. 1993 Gilchrist A3, X braced with slightly more depth.

    2. 2007 Weber Fern, the top & back plates recarved by Bruce, tone bar braced with a slightly wider body.

    3. 2009 Gibson F4 Hybrid, prototype #1 by Dave Harvey, X braced

    4. 1923 Gibson A2 Loar era with standard bracing.


    AND I get it! The word "Tubby" is NOT an onomatopoeia, (there you go Ty!) but rather a word that somehow gathered traction in the musical conversation.

    Each of my mandolins are constructed very differently and while the two oval's sound different, (the F4 hybrid has more high end and the A2 has a more up-front intimate quality) they do have a distinctive sound characteristic in common that the F holes don't. To my ear I could say rounder, with a bit of a hollow quality, not at all unpleasant.

    While I'm not going to change the lexicon, I don't think the word "Tubby" is accurate much less descriptive.

    Thanks everyone!

    Billy Packard
    Billy Packard
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  18. #16
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  19. #17

    Default Re: Tubby

    Never know what you'll find rummaging around in the archives ... apparently, you can "tubby-up" your "F" hole mandolin a bit by placing a piece of masking tape over the treble sound hole. Accentuates the huskier tones coming from the lower strings while dampening down the brighter notes coming from the treble strings.

  20. #18
    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Thanks mandroid! That's some fun.
    Billy Packard
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  21. #19
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    Default Re: Tubby

    Tubby is in the ears of the beholder.

  22. #20

    Default Re: Tubby

    I think the tubby sound has something to do with the bracing, the stradolins have that sound and the bracing travels the same way as the bridge, even on the f-hole mandos.

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