I'd sell it. It should be in a museum or the hands of a much-more-talented musician than I. Then I'd use the money to buy a whole truckload of less-collectible musical equipment.
I'd sell it. It should be in a museum or the hands of a much-more-talented musician than I. Then I'd use the money to buy a whole truckload of less-collectible musical equipment.
I would probably sell it. I do not play well enough to keep a Loar, and it should go to someone who would. That said, I like to go to auctions on occasion, just to see what I can get for a bargain, and I bought an absolutely WONDERFUL sounding violin (that I also don't play well enough to deserve) for $150.00. The daughter of the person whose property was being auctioned demonstrated, and when I got it home, it played much better and sounded much better than my original violin, so it was all good. So I would have just a little guilt for getting a Loar for $20, but not too much. It is kind of on the seller to do their "homework."
What was that line? You know, the one that went something like:
"He once had a fortune but spent most of it on wine, women, and mandolins. The rest he just wasted."
- Ed
"Then one day we weren't as young as before
Our mistakes weren't quite so easy to undo
But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
I'm a better man for just the knowin' of you."
- Ian Tyson
Seeing a Loar-signed F5 go into a museum, never to be played, would be a tragedy. Not as much as it being destroyed or lost, but it would still be a loss to the musical world, in terms of it not being out there playing music.
Chris Thile has the right attitude on this, as he mentioned in an interview a few years ago. These are meant to be played, not stared at! Get them repaired, restored, get the fret spacing corrected, and make music with them.
Keep that skillet good and greasy all the time!
If some dude was just selling an actual Loar signed instrument at a Yard sale for $20 I would likely buy it but, I'm not sure. Some little old lady, I would probably tell her what she had. There's zero chance I would keep it. I would turn it into as much cash as possible to pay for kids' college and travel for my wife and I.
Jamie
I always feel bad for wanting to buy it for $20 and likely wouldn't. I would likely have to tell the person because that's the right thing to do... stupid morals.
There are two things to aim at in life: first, to get what you want; and, after that, to enjoy it. Only the wisest of mankind achieve the second. Logan Pearsall Smith, 1865 - 1946
+ Give Blood, Save a Life +
Friends, Romans, and Countrymen:
First off thank you for all the well wishes. I am not destitute, just a little humbled, but thankful nonetheless. I have pretty good health, lots of friends, family, etc. and most people have a lot worse life than I do in SoCal. As an example, I just ran into a former co-worker from 3 years ago who at 6'4" and about 235 lbs rode a Harley, etc. Well he's developed Parkinsons and it's not pretty as he shuffles while ambulating, tremors, etc. so I really do count my blessings! I didn't mean to stir the sympathy pot, just was being honest in regards to the hypothetical situation, which would be different if I was grossing $85K.
Secondly, finding a Loar at a flea market was not my raison d'etre...I believe I said if you happened upon a Loar, so please don't restrict you thoughts to a flea market scenario. This is kinda like the kobayashi maru, there is no wrong response from my vantage point. Also I have been assured by Spruce that this really did happen, he's just being sensitive to the person involved to respect their privacy.
My further thoughts on the flea market scenario is that I would buy it for $20, but if I kept it, I would pay the seller some kind of honorarium fee monthly, or if I sold it, a percentage of the profits.
Carry On with the responses!
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
I wouldn't end up keeping it, that's for sure. Not because I wouldn't want to, but because my family has greater needs than for me to have a 175k mandolin. I would play it a little, not enough to get attached, and then sell it and buy a real nice mandolin and a real nice banjo and put the rest towards paying down the mortgage so we don't have to sell our house when our son enters college. Unless it was a total piece of junk that was in such bad condition it was only worth a couple hundred dollars (which, for a Loar, would probably mean that it was basically just a few pieces of wood held together by duct tape and chicken wire.) Then I would keep it just to own a piece of history.
The real question, as several people have said, is what about the person who is selling it. If they seem anything other than really well off, I would have trouble not telling them. If they looked pretty darn comfortable, well....I would probably fail the ethics test.
Ah-ooo-lord ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WCFUGCOLLU
Sorry Flatrock (and everyone else):
I need to learn to re-read my posts more carefully - especially when I get called away in the middle of it.
Anyhow - I was told by someone who (obviously) didn't know mandolins that they had an A-style Loar in the shop across the street - which is one of the reasons why I ran over there ASAP to see if it was a one-of-a-kind rarity. The mandolin that I played was an actual Loar-signed instrument . . . and in HORRIBLE shape.
Charley
A bunch of stuff with four strings
Well buddy, I feel your pain, I used to own a restaurant then after a mysterious illness being misdiagnosed for 10 years, My body is shot! Finally after open heart at 36 y,old getting better but pry never be right I'd for sure keep that elusive find and keep on a truckin. $ is just something that gets in the way.
Like you said some folks are in far worse shape, I agree, I was on the verge of death a few times, no joke seriously and while I do have some decent horns I thought about selling but the thought of what the next day might bring kept me from it, was in my womans hand anyway if it got that bad, happy I stuck it out. But whatever my finances were if I came across a Loar or something close I would've kept it and enjoyed it with whatever time I had. There is always an upside to everything. Keep that head up, good things always come back around.
Last edited by William Smith; Mar-23-2017 at 6:50pm. Reason: more info
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
That is a great point, and perhaps the most important point. I didn't think of it, but you are right on.
I don't have the kind of life where $200,000 can be tied up in a mandolin. Or to say it another way, the changes in my life that a infusion of $200,000 would make would be gigantic, and much (much much much) more important to my health and happiness, to say nothing of my continued musical life, than the mandolin could ever be.
Keeping a $200,000 mandolin is the same as spending that amount on a mandolin. And keeping it means that really, you have had enough financial success that an infusion of another $200,000 would not make as much difference as acquiring the mandolin. Or to say it another way, given the cash, free and clear, you would spend it on the mandolin.
In which case you are successful indeed, and I want to interview you.
To be fair Jeff, if you've been following this thread So what is the real value of a Loar in today's world, the Loar cognoscenti have determined the current real value closer to $100K; still not chump change, but not $200K either...Carry On...
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
Whether we'd keep or sell such a find depends on several things IMO. Firstly,it's condition. 1) Does it require work done on it to make it playable ? = lots of cash outlay to start with. If it does,we either fork out the cash or sell it on 'as seen' & leave it to the buyer = end of problem. If it's already in decent playing order,we simply ask for more cash. 2) If we decide to keep it,are we going to be comfortable with owning a mega-buck mando. ?. Some folk don't care to own high value items simply because of the risk of theft etc. 3) Are we good enough as a mandolin player to warrant having such a valuable mandolin ?. Some folk might keep it even if they could hardly play,others might decide to sell it & buy a mandolin more suited to 'their' talent.
Other factors such as financial situation comes into play as well - but let's say that the finder is financially sound.
If it was me - i honestly don't know !. If the mandolin was in good,playable condition & maybe only needed a relatively small amount of cash spending on it,i'd keep it for a while & try to make a sensible decision. I wouldn't hesitate to take it 'out to play',but i wouldn't be broadcasting to all & sundry that i owned a ''Lloyd Loar'' mandolin,for most folk,''a Gibson is a Gibson'',until you tell 'em different.
It would have to be something very special to make me keep it it think. If it really was so much 'better' than any other mandolin i ever came across,then 'maybe' i would keep it & enjoy it. If not,i'd sell it & buy another mandolin - a nice Gibson F5L would do,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
If I had the money to take it to a good luthier and get it playable, sure I would play it.
Since that would cost so much I would probably have to sell it to get the cost back in the long run, but it would be fun for a while...
I should be pickin' rather than postin'
Another thing, I believe they are still out there just like some of the elusive models like prewar F-7's,10's and 12's. Many uncounted for by certain #'s in some recent mando books, and look at the Loar serial #'s, there are some missing in relating to a bunch of #'s then maybe skip one and start up the sequence again with Loar F-5's! To me stands to reason one # missing in order would be a missing Loar? I may be wrong.
In about 2000-2002 there was a Loar found almost in my back yard at an estate sale in Northeast PA, thats in western PA about 35 miles from my house, close to Erie PA! that was sold for 800bucks!, I know it was a 23, don't know serial# without looking in archive to find it. It was in some widows husbands gun cabinet as the story goes, someone got a Krazzzzzzzzzzy deal!! I talked with a well known collector who bought it from whoever found it but he paid quite a bit more, whatever they were going for at that time, my guess 60G?
Well, I think, should the opportunity arise () for me.... Buy, enjoy, sell, enjoy something else.
As for "underemployment", After "being retired" from a profession which, in the time I have been away has changed so much I'm not sure I would really want to go back into it. I have spent the last several years looking for gainful employment and had lousy luck.
It has allowed more time to pick though!
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
I disagree. Getting a $200,000 mandolin (or $150,000) for virtually nothing is not the same as spending that money. If it didn't cost you anything but chump change at a flea market, then that's what it really cost you. Just because you *could* turn it into cash doesn't mean you're being irresponsible with your money. There is no universal grand onus on you to immediately dispose of it, unless you're in dire straits and living the kind of lifestyle that isn't sustainable.
The real question is whether you are living within your means, and whether you are on the right course with your debt, retirement plan, etc. If you have an established budget and have your finances under control, there's no reason to feel guilty about holding on to a high-value instrument that didn't cost you anything close to what it's worth.
I mean, it would obviously be up to each individual to decide whether it's in their best financial interest to liquidate that asset and use the funds for something else that would make their lives more comfortable and secure. But I think we tend to want to punish ourselves, or deny ourselves nice things in our musical hobby, because we all feel the burden of responsibility for taking care of our families first. I get that. But I would stop short of equating the mere possession of a high-dollar instrument with the actual spending of high-dollar money on it.
I'm not wealthy by any means, but I do feel comfortable enough with my finances where an extra infusion of $200,000 in the form of a Loar F5 would not be "life changing". Sure, I could pay off my mortgage and find something mundane and utilitarian to do with the rest, but I don't think I'm living the type of lifestyle where I absolutely NEED to do that. I'm comfortable with my debt load and am on track to have my house paid off in the next few years, and my retirement is on track as well as my personal savings. I'd just keep it and play it.
Keep that skillet good and greasy all the time!
I wonder what else was at this flea market?
If I could eat and have a place to sleep I'd keep the Loar. But then, I have been off my medication for awhile now.
Nick, the question is provocative and I must say, I would love to entertain such an opportunity to "steal" a great instrument at such a price. I was compelled though to say I was sorry to hear of your misfortune, neighbor. You are a talented guy and I know you will be snapped up when the right position comes your way. Dan
2014 BRW F5 #114
2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model
YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"
I couldn't in good conscience buy something worth that much for twenty bucks. However, having said that, I probably wouldn't spend over $500. for any mandolin. I have a Breedlove crossover that I got from GC online that cost me about $300. and I'm perfectly happy with that. I also wouldn't spend $35. or more for a pick. I'd rather spend my money on other things like food and rent. In one of my more foolish moments, I purchased a $2000. Acoustic guitar a few years ago. It sits in my closet most of the time. I enjoy playing my $200. Electric guitar more. I don't have to worry about if it gets scratched up or not.
I assume for the purposes of this thread that the $20 Loar mandolin is in fact a verified Loar. As a lad I purchased a Gibson Hummingbird guitar from a guy. Beautiful translucent red color with that iconic pickguard. I got a real nice deal, $175 w/HSC. It was a fake I came to find out and really not a very good one, but it had Gibson on the head stock and a Gibson label.. I would never believe that a flea market Loar in any condition was anything but a fake. Still, for $20 I would buy it if I had the chance. $20 is a good price even for a wall hanger.
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