About how many are left to find?
About how many are left to find?
Jeff,
I am going to hazzard a guess that it's the reputation of California being the land of fruits and nuts, etc. that elicited the reaction. California gets a reputation of being a wild and excessive liberal state and anything goes place; but this is primarily because of Hollwood/LA and San Fransisco. San Diego is a military town that is still mostly conservative, and when you get away from the coast, California is primarily conservative in attitudes and values. It's just that the biggest population areas besides San Diego are liberal and predominantly on the coast. So people around the USA lump Californians in with the Hollywood ideals and values they see on TV, (think of the entertainment industry and the Manson family) etc. but the state is much more complex in its attitudes than what Hollywood would have most people believe.
He probably assumed that Jeff was a typical California "hippie" or "liberal" that he'd rather not do business with.
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
I was interested in what actually was the relative value of $900 1974 dollars today. The interweb tells me 900 1974 dollars is equal to about $4700 2017 dollars. So the purchase of that Loar in ~1974 would hurt about as much the purchase of a nice Collings MF5 would today. In fact I bought a 1973 Gibson RB250 in 1975 for $600 with my pizza delivery tips. Something tells me he shoulda tried to scrape together that $900.
I like your way of thinking, but the "whole vintage guitar thing" was not well established in 1974, it was in it's infancy, so to speak. Sure, there was Gruhn's, maybe Elderly, Mandolin Brothers, Manny's, and Norman's Rare Guitars, but it was a very small subculture of the "guitar biz" in which I'm including mandolins, of course. The first I'd heard of "vintage guitars" was from old Bluegrass guys at festivals who preferred old "beat up" Martins to new guitars. Next, I noticed people like Roy Buchanan who also preferred playing a 25 year old guitar, rather than a new one. There were some "fanzine" type publications like Mugwumps that dealt with the lure of old instruments, mostly pertaining to folk music. In the back of Mugwumps were ads by people trying to sell things like Loars and flathead Gibson banjos. What I'm trying to say is that $900 might have seemed like a lot of money for someone to spend on a "used" instrument, when a new one might have been close to that price. That seemed to be the challenge for vintage instruments before they made "vintage" a cool thing. To this day, there are people who would never consider buying a used instrument, vintage, Loar, or otherwise. That is what they were up against back then. And certainly once vintage prices topped the price of the equivalent new instrument. It took a while for the public to "catch up" to the vintage train of thought. It is kind of like goatees and tattoos -- 30 years ago it was frightening, now thanks to cable, it's what the rockstars and sports figures wear! How about men dying their hair 30 years ago?
In 1982, I drove a 1960 Coupe de Ville Cadillac. It was a cool old car, but was probably only worth a couple thousand dollars at the time. Somebody offered me a nice 1980 Buick LeSabre for it on an even trade. I passed, because I liked the Caddy better. My father just about went insane over me not taking the trade, thinking a recent Buick was the better deal and also worth more money. He talked about it for years, actually. Again, he couldn't get his mind around the vintage thing.
Another thought is that if Gruhn's or an established vintage dealer was asking $900, with a little luck back then you probably could find one for a third to half of that at a "used" music store. They were called "trade-ins" -- a term that has kind of evaporated over time as the vintage market gained a foothold. I distinctly remember in the early 80's vintage dealers were asking $900 for a 60's Gretsch Tennessean. So, I got in the Caddy and drove to the "bad" neighborhood and found one for $175. It was like the vintage stores were charging a "finder's fee" once this stuff became popular again..........granted, a Loar or a '59 Burst might have been quite a bit harder to find.
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
Taking CavScout's point re. the value of the $ in 1974,compared with today has no relation to the inflated price of 'any' valuable item. They take on a price level all their own. You can use this device to give you an approx. value of the $ then & now.But,as the $ values fluctuate,to a degree it is approximate :- https://www.measuringworth.com/ppowerus/
I did the calc. & it came up with this :- "A simple Purchasing Power Calculator would say the relative value is $4,320.00. This answer is obtained by multiplying $900 by the percentage increase in the CPI from 1974 to 2015.". It looks as though it doesn't cover years 2016/2017 - but it ain't $185,000 to $200,000 !,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
Yep agree and thanks also to Jeff. I think my source used a CPI calc as well. But yea,there have to have been a few years of nearly exponential increases to get to where we are today. One question...just based on (very casusal) observation...it seems like Loars are actually easier to find than non-Loars minted in the years after Loar left Gibson. Am I wrong or is it easier to find a Loar than, say, a '26 or '27 F5?
Thanks!
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
Living in Mississippi, the whole "left coast" seems quite liberal to people here. Although, I see it is probably not accurate to lump more rural areas of California, Oregon, and Washington state with what goes on in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle.
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