Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Cottonwood

  1. #1

    Default Cottonwood

    I know, I know.
    However I am thinking of taking down a 50-60 ft tree that is good for nothing but sticky seed pods on the camper, thousands of branchlets and knee deep leaves in fall. However it's got 10' of straight branch free trunk that's 2.5 ft in diameter.
    So the guy doing the estimate was quite inquisitive and it came out that I made mandolins and when I said they were made with maple he said there are Red's here in Colorado which I didn't know. So I showed him a nice curly spilt set from Old Standard and he said that cottonwood gets figure like that and said mine will probably have it.
    But as far as I know it's going to be far too soft and dead. Anyone ever here of it used in musical instruments?

  2. #2
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Orcas Island, Washington
    Posts
    6,172

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Hilburn View Post
    Anyone ever here of it used in musical instruments?
    Yep...
    I mill "cottonwood" here on the Left Coast to replicate the wood we see in a lot of Strads, and other instruments of that period...
    I think they might be the white poplar that grows near Cremona, but there's a scant chance we'll ever know for sure...
    Here's the Castelbarco Strad cello....pretty plain looking wood that apparently sounds great.....

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	f57f7fbfa6273ba17eb2af3234c8479a.jpg 
Views:	312 
Size:	9.9 KB 
ID:	155120
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ee34b7b03b7782fa99f3158c7414f730.jpg 
Views:	260 
Size:	14.0 KB 
ID:	155119  

  3. The following members say thank you to Spruce for this post:


  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boulder, CO & Chesterfield, MO
    Posts
    2,562

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Colorado Cottonwood is really soft. It grows so quickly that is has very wide grain as well. To boot, is smells like urine while you're working it. I don't think I'd use it for anything that you would want to last. It isn't even that good as firewood.

  5. The following members say thank you to colorado_al for this post:

    fox 

  6. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Conneaut Lake, PA
    Posts
    4,147

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Of course I know Spruce is the expert here, and with all due respect to Stradivarius as well...I'm with Al on this one. Cottonwood is related to the Poplar and Aspen family. All of the species in that family, though technically hardwoods, are quite soft at a Janka hardness rating of around 300-400 pounds. That's softer than many softwoods. I just can't think of an application in mandolin making for a wood like that. If it's pretty and figured, dulcimer tops maybe. But not mandolins.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

  7. #5

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    I was suprised to hear it was ever used.
    If it's curly maybe a bowl guy might be interested. Without proper drying I expect it will check badly.

  8. #6
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Orcas Island, Washington
    Posts
    6,172

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Colorado Cottonwood is really soft. It grows so quickly that is has very wide grain as well. To boot, is smells like urine while you're working it. I don't think I'd use it for anything that you would want to last. It isn't even that good as firewood.
    Ditto with the stuff that in in the Strad violas and cellos...
    Wide graining, although it was usually used on the slab.
    And yes, "that" smell...
    And yet we see it in a lot of historically important instruments.

    Strad (and others) left it pretty thick compared to maple, but the instruments were still very light in weight.
    I picked up the Castelbarco cello at the Library of Congress, and it was like picking up an empty milk carton in the fridge...

    There's a Bartolomeo Giuseppe Guarneri 'del Gesω cello that is famously made from willow/poplar that the cottonwood mimics...great instrument.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Spruce For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boulder, CO & Chesterfield, MO
    Posts
    2,562

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Spruce View Post
    Ditto with the stuff that in in the Strad violas and cellos...
    Wide graining, although it was usually used on the slab.
    And yes, "that" smell...
    And yet we see it in a lot of historically important instruments.

    Strad (and others) left it pretty thick compared to maple, but the instruments were still very light in weight.
    I picked up the Castelbarco cello at the Library of Congress, and it was like picking up an empty milk carton in the fridge...

    There's a Bartolomeo Giuseppe Guarneri 'del Gesω cello that is famously made from willow/poplar that the cottonwood mimics...great instrument.
    Thanks for the great info! I'm curious to hear more. Do you have any photos or sound clips of the instruments that you've made from it? Plains Cottonwood grows like weeds here around every water source and they are constantly falling over from their own weight because they grow so large so quickly. Any day now, the air will be so filled with their seeds that it looks like it is snowing. Besides firewood, and sucking water holes dry, I hadn't heard of anyone using them for anything besides quick shade trees.

  11. #8
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Orcas Island, Washington
    Posts
    6,172

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Do you have any photos or sound clips of the instruments that you've made from it?
    I haven't made anything from it.
    But I've sent out hundreds of sets of cottonwood for others to replicate the look and sound of the Cremonese instruments...

    It's funky looking stuff under varnish. The Strad cellos have a silver-dollar sized inclusion in the backs, all filled with mastic, and funky as all get out.
    But they sound great.

    Why they used it I do not know. But they did, and it worked.
    And we're talking multi-million dollar instruments here, folks--famous fiddles.
    And that Cottonwood (all species that I've milled) mimics the stuff that was in the Italian instruments perfectly.

  12. #9

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    I've been in this house for almost 35 years and the tree was here when I moved in so it hasn't exactly sprouted like a weed.

  13. #10
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Orcas Island, Washington
    Posts
    6,172

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    It does display fiddleback figuring sometimes, too...
    You see the figured stuff for sale all the time in the Cremona shops, at prices that rival figured maple...
    But, I've never seen a figured piece in an old Cremonese instrument...
    Check out this viola by David Van Zandt...

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Spruce For This Useful Post:


  15. #11
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Saint Augustine Beach FL
    Posts
    6,633

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    I thought,perhaps, that some of the Strad cellos and violas were some type of willow. Any way the cottonwood looks like like it fits the bill.
    David Van Zandt makes some nice instruments.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  16. #12
    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Lakebay, Wa
    Posts
    4,162

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    When David VanZandt talks about "poplar" is he referring to lirodondrum tulipfera or something else?
    Bill
    IM(NS)HO

  17. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    So Oregon
    Posts
    1,010

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    In the USA.. I know of only one use of cottonwood..

    Kachina Dolls

    And not just cottonwood, but cottonwood root.

    Specifically cottonwood root that is collected from stream beds after a spring run off..
    Anything else is not a true Kachina doll.


    Cottonwood is punky and near useless.

    Perhaps Italian cottonwood felled under a full winter moon has some redeeming qualities.

  18. The following members say thank you to Jeff Hildreth for this post:

    Spruce 

  19. #14
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Orcas Island, Washington
    Posts
    6,172

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post

    Cottonwood is punky and near useless.
    Well, again popular names start to confuse things...
    If you use plywood, you are using "cottonwood", which is the core...
    It's actually Populus trichocarpa, but we all call it "Cottonwood"...

    Quote Originally Posted by billhay4 View Post
    When David VanZandt talks about "poplar" is he referring to lirodondrum tulipfera or something else?
    Something else...
    Lirodondrum tulipfera is in the magnolia family...

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    I thought,perhaps, that some of the Strad cellos and violas were some type of willow.
    We really don't know what it is...and I've tried hard to ID it.
    It was touted as "Lombardy Poplar", but that was a hybridized tree that wasn't developed early enough to be in those fiddles...
    "Lombardy Poplar" sounded good, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    Any way the cottonwood looks like like it fits the bill.
    Yes, it does...

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Spruce For This Useful Post:


  21. #15

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    I knew about the Lombardy Poplar tree long before I ever knew what Cremona or Brescia meant to the world of violins and cellos.
    Learning about the old masters exposed me to the Lombardy region of Italy (in books only). I wouldn't dare say that the Lombardy we know in the US, or our cottonwood, would be suitable, but if I had a suitable log in my yard I'm pretty sure I would try it.
    Cottonwood has long been a wood used for western saddle trees (frames) and pack saddle frames.

  22. #16

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    All I know is my best bid to take it out is $1600.

  23. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    So Oregon
    Posts
    1,010

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    One other nugget of wisdom.

    I was told by a rep from Lazy-Boy that some of the sub framing was made from poplar, basswood(linden), and cotton wood.

    As I said .. near useless : )


    He who does not own a Lazy-Boy chair.


    The plywood I use is mostly "Baltic birch" or "Russian Birch" much of it looking more like a maple.

  24. #18
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    13,103

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Cottonwood is a bluegrass band from North Dakota ...
    http://www.cottonwoodbluegrass.com/index/
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  25. #19
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    13,103

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hildreth View Post
    In the USA.. I know of only one use of cottonwood..

    Kachina Dolls
    Well, hey, I grew up in Flagstaff; cottonwoods abound in north central Arizona, especially along the Verde River, which would explain why Hopis, Zunis and Navajos use them for kachinas. One of the customers on my paper route was pretty good at carving those little guys. And if you thought mandolins were expensive, hey: https://www.kachinahouse.com/native-...chinas-on-sale

    When I was a teenager and worked for my dad, one of the proofreading gigs he gave me was a catalog for a museum exhibit of kachina dolls. I didn't get to see the actual exhibit until years later, when I happened to visit the Milwaukee County Museum and there it was, along with copies of the catalog I had worked on. OK, not that exciting of a story.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  26. The following members say thank you to mrmando for this post:


  27. #20

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Not even anything ressembling figure... and the smell!

  28. #21

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Maybe you can make a 'lazy boy' line of mandolin stands?
    Cases?
    It may still make fine music, without the figure...

  29. #22
    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Frederick,MD
    Posts
    2,304

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Colorado Cottonwood is really soft. It grows so quickly that is has very wide grain as well. To boot, is smells like urine while you're working it. I don't think I'd use it for anything that you would want to last. It isn't even that good as firewood.
    I knew a farmer in upstate NY who cut down some Cottonwood trees. He split and stacked the wood, thinking to use it as firewood. He told me that the 6'stack shrank down to 4' once the wood dried, and it burned up so fast that he was constantly stoking his wood stove. He vowed never again.
    I'd imagine that wood that shrinks that much would also check and split a whole lot.
    For wooden musical fun that doesn't involve strumming, check out:
    www.busmanwhistles.com
    Handcrafted pennywhistles in exotic hardwoods.

  30. #23

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    They're only good for shade...if you can stand all the stuff that comes off of them in spring or the pile of leaves in fall.

  31. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Port Townsend, WA
    Posts
    222

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    I knew some teepee dwellers who said cottonwood is the preferred wood for an indoor fire, because it doesn't send out sparks.

  32. #25

    Default Re: Cottonwood

    Fremont cottonwood (populus fremontii) gets big in oldwave holler, neighbor's late husband framed their house with fresh cut cottonwood he harvested at the old home place and took to the mill. Interior finish is mostly paint over joint compound! Biggest standing tree I've measured here was 28' circumference bh. Haven't used it except for kindling, but doublebass maker Hannah Mayne uses a canadian poplar for the backs of her thunderboxes
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	P1020094.JPG 
Views:	141 
Size:	791.6 KB 
ID:	156397  

  33. The following members say thank you to oldwave maker for this post:


Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •