Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Mending a Martin.....

  1. #1
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Mending a Martin.....

    A few weeks ago, I found a Martin in a Uk 'small Ad' online for around $40.

    It had a broken neck.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1617 (2).jpg 
Views:	101 
Size:	132.4 KB 
ID:	154898
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1616 (2).jpg 
Views:	113 
Size:	133.8 KB 
ID:	154897
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1618 (2).jpg 
Views:	118 
Size:	137.8 KB 
ID:	154899
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1588 (2).jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	137.4 KB 
ID:	154901

    It was held together with a rusty 2 1/2" woodscrew and some filler. It seemed worth spending some time to try to get it back up together and playable.

    With the guidance and encouragement of two valued members and the assistance of my very patient next door neighbour, this morning it has been re-strung and played ( albeit only at my level of 'pinking' ability ! ) for the first time since perhaps 1940 something.

    I'm going to add to this posting in the hope that it will give confidence to other hapless Duffers like me and even highlight to some of the more experienced some of what I came across during the job, as I could not find many specifics for some of the work on-line and some surprises turned up.

  2. The following members say thank you to NEH57 for this post:


  3. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,933

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    I am looking forward to seeing this through!
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  4. #3
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor/Austin
    Posts
    6,310

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    I am looking forward to seeing this through!
    Me, too.

    I just gave my Martin a hug after seeing those pictures. The folks here will have some good some proper advice. Good luck!

    Mick
    Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
    ______________________

    '05 Cuisinart Toaster
    '93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
    '12 Stetson Open Road
    '06 Bialetti expresso maker
    '14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig

  5. #4
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,933

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    This is a good story, you'll enjoy this

    NEH57 has it pretty much repaired but not finished.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  6. #5
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Well, before going any further, I should 'out' Mike as my first inspiration and the harshest critic of my initial thought that a 'dowel' would be a good fixing option ! The seller had it listed as a broken 'no name' and it was the tiny fret dot's that pushed my button as well as the 'unique' livery that tended to date it's arrival in the Uk to some time around 1944, having left Nazareth 20 years earlier according to the serial number.

    Mike kindly confirmed the details re age etc and then pointed me at Frets.Com for a better solution to provide a long term fix - "for another 100 years". In the mean time I had read up on 'dowels' on the Cafe and was glad to have avoided the flames by mentioning it in public !
    Once I had 'half an idea' of where to go with it I got in touch with Tavy (John) who, I had seen was experienced in working on older resto's, had a desire to see instruments made playable for the sake of the playing and would 'get' my local terminology when I was 'rambling' about this bit & that and not knowing what was what. I had already established that the tuners were probably worth more than I had paid for the whole, so nothing ventured nothing gained.

    The general consensus was that a 'scarf' joint was the best option. I wanted to keep the Martin logo from the rear face of the head-stock though. So, a scarf and backstrap was the answer. Simples.......NOT.....this isn't my instrument, but it is the 'model' for where I wanted to go with my 'Jack-saw' and hammer

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nearlythere1.jpg 
Views:	140 
Size:	18.0 KB 
ID:	154906
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Nearlythere2.jpg 
Views:	113 
Size:	8.8 KB 
ID:	154907

    I nearly managed to buy a broken bodied 'A' from the year after on Ebay USA, for the sake of a 'sound' neck, but it went beyond what was viable and to be honest, knowing what I know now about Martin 1920's 'glue', I am probably glad it did.

  7. #6
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    In addition to the advice, on a Q & A instant reply most of the time from Mike and Tavy I had the invaluable assistance of my neighbour and his wife. I have a bit of a 'thing' for fettling old stuff, cane fishing rods, old motorbikes, my clothes ! and have "once" taken the back off an old ( 1940's) guitar with a split back seam to put a brace down it and re-fit it.
    I had built some 'bobbins' from a Youtube tutorial and had managed to get the old-glue apart with some warmed cake decorating tools before re-fixing it with hide glue. This seemed a bit more complicated than that.
    My neighbour Steve is a retired Aircraft engineer and has a workshop of metal working equipment. His wife, fed up with being left out of the 'making' stuff, has built up a handy carpentry 'shop'. More attuned to wood turning than Mandolin repair, but some bits would come in useful as the job progressed.

    My first task was to find some wood for the scarf. Thinking laterally......looking for 1900's Mahogany, I found some Mahogony 'Parquet' floor blocks recovered from the floor of a Yorkshire School having been laid in the 1890's, I reckoned they would have been cut in the preceding decades so would be well seasoned. In addition to the broken neck, there was a pretty bad 'split' in the bottom, a split in the 'top' and the top had lifted from the side around near the tail piece over an inch or so. I could also see that the bottom brace just inside the sound hole was not in contact along all of it's length. I couldn't find a reference on-line for the "internals" of a Martin A style from the era ( or any era ? ) so pretty much knew I had to get either the top or the back off.

    It was a good job I did. Whilst waiting for '2' Parquet blocks to come from the Reclamation Yard - the owner of which turned out to be a musician and was happy to sort me two tight grained examples with no shakes or gremlins, I went in with my cake tools......or rather went "through" with them

  8. #7
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    I understand the principals of hot hide glue. Heat, moisture, patience, gentle application of a sharp edge....and heat ....and moisture, with patience.....the glue releases, cracks apart....been there, done it on the other job. Unfortunately, Martin's 1924 glue had no such understanding of the principals of how it was supposed to release. In fact it didn't release. None of it did. Not from bottom, nor side and when I did eventually get 'in' by splitting the kerfing, I discovered that the reason the 'top' had parted from the side and a small length of rosewood binding had split with it, laterally, with some of it staying stuck to the side and some of it stuck to the top was that the pressure had split the kerfing ( as well as the binding ) and the halves of kerfing ( and binding ) has stayed stubbornly glued to their respective surfaces as the gap had developed. Even direct quite serious heat, with 'wet' and 'sharp' failed to do much with the glue other than move it about.
    It took several days of careful work to get all the old bits of kerfing off and the remnant glue which eventually left us with the inside exposed ready to deal with the splits and replacement kerfing sections. As it turned out 'all' the braces were loose to one extent or another, which was all the more odd given the tenacity with which the kerfing was stuck to it's surfaces.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	InTop.jpg 
Views:	131 
Size:	1.16 MB 
ID:	154911
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	backbrace.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	136.4 KB 
ID:	154912
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bobbins.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	138.9 KB 
ID:	154913
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pegged it.jpg 
Views:	125 
Size:	178.4 KB 
ID:	154914
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tandb.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	163.8 KB 
ID:	154915

  9. #8
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Internals sorted with new kerfing section at the break and adjoining original kerfing strengthened near the break with superglue and baking powder, back replaced, bobbined down, then rosewood binding warmed, and fitted......rubber-banded over night to take the shape - which it promptly 'lost' when un-banded next morning.....glued and finally fettled down by hand before finishing with French Polish.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Bobbin on (2).jpg 
Views:	108 
Size:	157.5 KB 
ID:	154916
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bands (2).jpg 
Views:	119 
Size:	163.2 KB 
ID:	154917
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fpd (2).jpg 
Views:	123 
Size:	138.3 KB 
ID:	154918
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rwbinding.jpg 
Views:	111 
Size:	124.8 KB 
ID:	154919

    Ready for the neck work next.....make or break, or more to the point permanently broken.....

  10. #9
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    So, this is where Steve comes in. Steve used to make parts for air planes. Indeed, even though retired, he is so valued he still does. From his garage. When faced with any engineering issue, his first instinct is to pretend wood is alloy or steel & set up his Milling machine.
    Enter Parquet 'block' pavoir/tile. Tar removed, tounge and groove sections band-sawn off and linished to a nice finish ready for action and 'setting up'. For the next section ( a long time ) I stand about idly in awe.
    The 'tile'.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01799.jpeg 
Views:	127 
Size:	101.8 KB 
ID:	154920
    The first 'cut'.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kindest cut.jpg 
Views:	132 
Size:	154.0 KB 
ID:	154921
    The second cut.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	straight cut.jpg 
Views:	119 
Size:	157.4 KB 
ID:	154922
    Cutting the tile....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01800.jpeg 
Views:	127 
Size:	115.9 KB 
ID:	154923
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01801.jpeg 
Views:	129 
Size:	112.5 KB 
ID:	154924
    Milling the 'other angle....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01802.jpeg 
Views:	126 
Size:	86.7 KB 
ID:	154925
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01803.jpeg 
Views:	123 
Size:	103.0 KB 
ID:	154926
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01804.jpeg 
Views:	117 
Size:	97.9 KB 
ID:	154927
    Working on the broken head....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01796.jpeg 
Views:	122 
Size:	98.4 KB 
ID:	154928
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01798.jpeg 
Views:	135 
Size:	78.8 KB 
ID:	154929

    Now to build it back up......

  11. #10

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Wow! Nice work and great photos. Many thanks for this.

  12. #11
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Stage 1 - or it was the way I decided to do it - glue the head parts.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01806.jpeg 
Views:	130 
Size:	89.8 KB 
ID:	154930
    Original head, new backstrap,
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01807.jpeg 
Views:	129 
Size:	71.3 KB 
ID:	154931
    Reduced and rosewood linished. Not sure whether to leave a hint of it or not.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01808.jpeg 
Views:	117 
Size:	91.5 KB 
ID:	154932
    Mahogany infill for the old screw-hole. Decided to remove all the original rosewood veneer from the top.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC01812.jpeg 
Views:	112 
Size:	80.9 KB 
ID:	154933

    Everything fits,
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Neck+ head new.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	144.1 KB 
ID:	154934

    After many hours of half-round file and sanding as per Tavy's sound advice. she is starting to look something like....
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Splice.jpg 
Views:	114 
Size:	146.9 KB 
ID:	154935
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Splice side.jpg 
Views:	124 
Size:	170.4 KB 
ID:	154936

    So next for the big reveal, I suppose.....the link to history beyond the serial number and the Martin name that attracted me to it in the first instance and made it worth the effort of trying to get her playable again.......
    There is - to my mind - a 'tingle' that goes with this instrument. A sense of the person that brought it to the Uk from the States. Why they came, what they went through before they arrived, what they did whilst they were here and how grateful we should be for the fact that they were ! There is also a question mark over why they left it behind. The 'flotsam' of the post war period, presumably. Mike thinks if there was a sad end to their story it would have been shipped home as part of someones effects. Perhaps it was broken back then. I don't know, but what I do know is, it rings like a bell now even if a bell badly rung

  13. #12
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1992 (2).jpg 
Views:	127 
Size:	132.3 KB 
ID:	154937
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1993 (2).jpg 
Views:	155 
Size:	135.1 KB 
ID:	154938
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1994 (2).jpg 
Views:	161 
Size:	139.6 KB 
ID:	154939
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1995 (2).jpg 
Views:	133 
Size:	144.0 KB 
ID:	154940
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1997 (2).jpg 
Views:	137 
Size:	142.1 KB 
ID:	154941

    It's not "perfect", it was never going to be original. It needs a little fettling, I reduced the bridge a little already, it needs a little more, but I want it to settle down a bit before I do too much.......the search is on for a tail piece cover, but it's very playable. It likes a Dogal pick more than a thick one, but as per my previous, it has a lovely ringing tone ( to my cloth ear).

    My McLennan mandolin has very fine frets so I am used to them, but the neck - as anyone with one will know - is tiny so will take a little getting used to, but once used to it, it seems very easy to get around and cover the strings. I will get a sound link up, but I'm shy! so will have to pluck up some courage and find a tune I can actually play.....so it is a very short list and not inspiring .

    As I said at the outset, I'm a Duffer, but well supported....and 'keen'. It might all fall apart by tomorrow but hopefully not.
    Thanks again - multiple times - to Mike and Tavy for their patience with my FSQ's and wondering's and wittering's.

  14. #13
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Ok, so, this is embarrassing, because I am a Newbie, so hardly qualified to show off the acoustic ability of an instrument, but, I have just put up with my wifes 'tutting' to knock off three quick ( and disjointed ) tunes with her doing her best Speilberg to show the way it sounds having literally just been re-strung today. Some start 'ok' then go off, others the opposite, some are never good.....




    What it probably does show is that I should spend more time practising my playing and less time 'messing', but when the right notes are hit, at the right pace and in the right order, I think she sounds ok.

  15. #14
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,933

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Considering the condition that was in when I first saw the pictures that is an amazing job. Play it proudly that is some nice work.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  16. #15
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Nobody else has mentioned this, so I hope I'm not about to make a fool of myself, but that doesn't look like a spruce soundboard to me. Could this be a koa model? If it is, it's no wonder it sounds good - and you can congratulate yourself for resurrecting something extra special.

    PS Don't be embarassed about your playing. I bought my first mandolin about 1970 and you're better than me already!

  17. #16
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Yes it is an AK Koa bodied model.

  18. #17
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Mansfield UK
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Wow you picked up a rarity there!

  19. #18
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Posts
    1,778
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Thanks for the careful documentation and reporting of the process. Your story just makes me grin. Big.

    When I saw the break, my first thought was, "Honkety, there is no need to feel jealous." But now, well, I am anyway. Congratulations for a job well done.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

  20. #19
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,933

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    It was identified as an AK from the get go and the thing sounds like a 20's Martin Koa AK. It actually sounds great. That sweet Martin sound. Not the Gibson bluegrass sound, they are just different and that one is special all the way around.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  21. The following members say thank you to MikeEdgerton for this post:


  22. #20
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,770

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Great work!

    One more reason why I lust after a nice old Bridgeport mill.....

    Did you see the similar Les Paul neck rebuild floating around the web where they used a mill setup very similar bu actually left the truss rod in place and milled around it?

  23. #21
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    4,456

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Great stuff here - I'd seen a lot of this one already, but not those stickers on top which are actually kind of cool

    First rate job on the repair too - I just wish I had a workshop like your neighbours!

  24. #22
    Registered User NEH57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    North Cotswolds, Uk
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Thanks Tavy - and all. As you know, I said - and meant, from the outset that if it was a disaster it would be a well kept secret !
    It was the decals which 'lit my fire' being a bit of a history/heritage 'geek'.
    There is no reason to believe that the (water slide) decals are not original and contemporary.
    The one on the back is that of the Yuma (YAAF) Air Gunners training range, which ( don't want to be teaching any one any egg sucking here, especially people who know ! ) was set up in 1943. The USAAF decals on the front reflect the U.S. airforce 'title' until 1947. The instrument was sourced from Dorset, near the Hampshire border where there were a number of USAAF bases and much of the preparation for 'D' day took place.
    The very great likelihood is that this came across the Atlantic with a U.S. Air-force serviceman and was proudly emblazoned with his "teams" logo to mark who and what he was. Not to everyone's taste I am sure to go putting 'stickers' onto their instruments, rather than the case !......but in the midst of what they were living through, I suspect said P.O. "didn't give a damn" and it very much adds to it for me.
    The serial number - 'I' thought when Mike did the research for me, was 11'3'89, actually turned out to be 11'1'89 when it was apart, although the third '1' is a bit odd, but would still date it to 1924.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	serial.jpg 
Views:	90 
Size:	151.0 KB 
ID:	154949

  25. #23
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,765

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Wonderful documentation of a wonderful mandolin. I, too, love the history as well.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  26. #24
    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    14,300
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Wowsers. Way to revive a great mandolin.

    Jamie
    There are two things to aim at in life: first, to get what you want; and, after that, to enjoy it. Only the wisest of mankind achieve the second. Logan Pearsall Smith, 1865 - 1946

    + Give Blood, Save a Life +

  27. #25
    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lehigh Valley - Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,279

    Default Re: Mending a Martin.....

    Great story, and well told.

    A little research suggests that the logo Y.A.A.F. logo may have been designed by Disney studios for the war effort. I suppose that the critter is supposed to be a Coatimundi, if I had to guess.
    BradKlein
    Morning Edition Host, WLVR News
    Senior Producer, Twangbox®
    Twangbox® Videos

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •