Any truth to sanding...?

[Chanmandolin]

...the finish off the top of the mandolin to make it louder/better tone/etc..

I have a mandolin that I love the tone of ...it just doesn't chop as I'd like it to, close just not quite woody enough for me. A luthier friend I have says he thinks it would bark a little better if he got some of the lacquer off and take some of the thickness of the top.

I admire his opinion, I would like to know what some of the cafe thinks.

Thanks in advance

[Ivan Kelsall]

What make is the mandolin ?. There have been a few folks who've posted in the ''builder's section'' on here regarding totally stripping the finish of their (usually) mid-priced mandolins, & achieving good results. Before i'd do anything as radical as that,i'd try different brands & gauges of string. Finding a string that really suits your mandolin could give you what you want. If it doesn't,then get your luthier friend to sand (scrape ?) some of the finish off the top to see if that works.

You could try a set of DR MD11 strings. They are a pretty powerful sounding string compared to other brands & they might work for you,
Ivan

[Shelagh Moore]

The finish can make a big difference. I've restored a couple of cheap mandolins that seemed to have around a 1mm thick lacquer finish and sanded and refinished them in Tru-Oil. The difference and improvement in sound was astonishing. Most better instruments however do tend to have thinner finishes and in this case, as Ivan mentioned, experimenting with strings (and probably picks and technique too) would be a logical first step.

[William Smith]

Oh yeh, it'll help but if its a vintage piece, I'd take off the back and work the top from the inside.

[Stephen Perry]

My suggestion is to go through everything else first. Lots of times the instrument is fighting itself in other ways. Finish is down the list quite a bit.

[fscotte]

Really depends on the thickness of the finish. Woodiness doesn't come from taking the lacquer off. If then woody tone is there you'll hear it.

[G7MOF]

...the finish off the top of the mandolin to make it louder/better tone/etc..

I have a mandolin that I love the tone of ...it just doesn't chop as I'd like it to, close just not quite woody enough for me. A luthier friend I have says he thinks it would bark a little better if he got some of the lacquer off and take some of the thickness of the top.

I admire his opinion, I would like to know what some of the cafe thinks.

Thanks in advance

If you already love the tone sanding down the finish will alter that. It's 6 of one or half a dozen of the other!

[Folkmusician.com]

I am in the camp that too much emphasis is put on finish. Is it a factor? yes. A main factor? Not so much. Of course a poly finish that looks like it was dipped instead of sprayed is obviously going to choke the mandolin down some, but a thin finish of any sort will be far from the main factor in tone. Now thinning the top, could be extreme, depending on exactly what was done.

Short of sanding/regraduating, the single biggest factor aside from strings will be the bridge.

[MediumMando5722]

Nitro vs poly finishes is a frequently debated topic in the electric guitar world. One writer mentioned how even if a "thick" poly finish was choking the tone, it seemed more likely that the belly and shirt pressed against the back would choke it even more.

I'm into removing the finish from the back of the neck, but it's for feel, not tone.

[Bad Monkey]

I am in the camp that too much emphasis is put on finish. Is it a factor? yes. A main factor? Not so much. Of course a poly finish that looks like it was dipped instead of sprayed is obviously going to choke the mandolin down some, but a thin finish of any sort will be far from the main factor in tone. Now thinning the top, could be extreme, depending on exactly what was done.

Short of sanding/regraduating, the single biggest factor aside from strings will be the bridge.

Absolutely everything is a factor in the final tone of an instrument. Even on a Telecaster. Wood species of the body/top/fretboard, finish be it poly/nitro/whatnot, strings, type of glue used, fingers, bladda bladda bladda... As FM said, the trick is figuring out the hierarchy of all these factors and where any change made is going to have an audible effect.

That said, bridge and strings are going to give the biggest bang for the buck right off the bat plus having the added bonus of being totally reversible if the tone changes in a way that is less than optimal. Just one guy's opinion though.

[Northwest Steve]

As mentions a couple of times, what would your luthier think of trying a Cumberland bridge if strings do not make a difference. Have you experimented with pics, if not you might try the pic sampler?

If you go the route of removing the finish you most likely will negatively effect the resale value of the instrument. Most people that do regraduations do it from the inside not sanding from the out side?

[dhergert]

Regarding nitro vs poly finish, I'd also add that a typical poly finish is harder and less brittle than nitro. Hardness of the finish also makes a difference in tone and volume.

This isn't to say that I don't prefer nitro -- i really do prefer it. But I've heard some consistently crazy good sounding mandolins with relatively thick poly finishes.

I'd really agree with Robert Fear that the biggest change in tone and volume, without disassembling the mandolin, is by changing (and/or by properly seating) the bridge.

[Stephen Perry]

Finish system is very important, however, none of the mandolins I know of use much of a system. Just stain/sealer/clearish stuff.

On the other hand, tearing off the old finish is good for the trade!

Setup. Bridge replacement. Tweaking. Strings. Until all that is exhausted seems a waste of effort.

[Chanmandolin]

I would like to thank everyone for their responses! Very helpful.

I should add...

The mandolin in question is not my main mandolin, more of a project.

It is also not a high end mandolin, let's say I didn't pay more than $1000.

Strings are not the issue as I've found what I believe to be the best for me and the mandolin.

I added an Allen tailpiece.

Tone guard as always.

The bridge has been changed and fitted to a CA bridge and it did help a little....not a lot but it did add some more volume.

Like I said this is a fun project for me. I kinda wanna see with a little love and care , what this mandolin could turn in to. Maybe it will give some hope to the folks who are on a budget when it comes to their instruments.

Also, I had all of these parts around the house before anyone thinks im dumping big $$$$ into a cheaper mandolin. And I have really good friends that im happy to have around that help me with these things.

Chandler

[tiltman]

I believe that some "random hippie sanding" helped one fellas mandolin...

Kirk

[dhergert]

... before anyone thinks im dumping big $$$$ into a cheaper mandolin. ...
Chandler

What, is there something wrong with that???



(I spent more on a tone guard, an arm rest, a pick guard, strap, case and on shipping for my MK then I spent on the MK itself. You'll get no complaints from me!)

You know, it sounds like you've done your homework, you've made some easy changes and you're looking at this realistically... If you feel that re-carving the top, either from the front or by taking the back off, will enhance your experience with your mandolin project, I'd say go for it. Just be prepared in case it doesn't work out at all, or in case it doesn't improve things...

If it were me, I'd probably take the back off and re-carve the back of the top, just because there's more experience to gain and because I hate working with finishes (and I'm not all that good at it).

Really, in exchange for the experience you would gain, you have nothing to lose. That's one of the things that inexpensive mandolins are really great for.

[jhowell]

(I spent more on a tone guard, an arm rest, a pick guard, strap, case and on shipping for my MK then I spent on the MK itself. You'll get no complaints from me!)

Yup...I have an MK solid A in satin that I got from a box store for $99 shipped. After a good going through which included leveling, recrowning and polishing the frets, sanding a 'speed neck' ( I have acidic sweaty hands that destroy strings and stick to finish). Its one ugly mother, but it's mine and I'm pretty sure I'll keep it even after moving up.....still jonesing on the KM-606

[MikeEdgerton]

I believe that some "random hippie sanding" helped one fellas mandolin...

Kirk

I was so hoping someone would say that

[marbelizer]

The bridge has been changed and fitted to a CA bridge and it did help a little....

Chandler

I'm dying to know what a CA bridge is. A brand name? A type?

[sblock]

I'm dying to know what a CA bridge is. A brand name? A type?

CA = Cumberland Acoustic
Click here to learn more.

[Petrus]

(I spent more on a tone guard, an arm rest, a pick guard, strap, case and on shipping for my MK then I spent on the MK itself. You'll get no complaints from me!)

On the plus side with this sort of upgrade chain, all those items (except the shipping!) can just be transferred to another mandolin if you ever get tired of or outgrow the MK.

I've upgraded the tuners and tailpiece on a cheapo, then later recycled them when I got another mandolin.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've often wished that i'd kept my own first mandolin,my Michael Kelly ''Legacy - solid''. Having read so much on here in the years i've been a member,i've learned more than i ever thought that there was to learn about mandolins & their behaviour. I'd love to have experimented with a better bridge / string brand / gauge combos.to see if i could make it sound 'better' = more like mid. / upper range instrument,or at least, see how close it would get - a chance missed !,
Ivan

PS - I just remembered that i had this pic. of a refinished MK mandolin,one that a Cafe member re-finished a while back. I think it looks pretty darned terific !!!.

[billkilpatrick]

I rubbed some fine steel-wool on my LM-600 to knock back its caramel candy finish - sound might have improved ... but I'd say that anyway. N.B.: - if your mandolin has a nitro finish, be sure to wear a protective mask when sanding.

As for "random hippie sanding" - Like riding a bike ... a bit wobbly at first but it's amazing how quickly it all comes back.

... and in that vein, here's a "random hippie sanding" joke for you:

What do you do if you see a spaceman?
You park in it, man ...

(snork)

[MikeEdgerton]

...What do you do if you see a spaceman?
You park in it, man ...

Right Arm! Farm Out!

[billkilpatrick]