Gadzooks, those guys play that fast.
I just listened to it for the first time since I learned how to play it. I doubt I'll ever be that fast on Soldier's Joy or anything else for that matter.
The out-take from the end of the song, "Alright. We'll leave that one alone" seems like sage advice coming from Doc Watson. <phew>
Anyone blown away like that recently?
Daniel, off to Heidenfest!
That track did not blow me away, it annoyed me, as did most of that CD. That is what I call a "show-off tune" or even a "show-off CD." Both guys are trying to impress the audience with thier speed and technique, which is definitely impressive, don't get me wrong, but unfortunately they do it at the expense of the music.
"Soldiers Joy" doesn't actually sound good at that speed, IMHO. Music is not a contest or a sporting event where the most notes per second are the objective. Speed and technique should be tools to make music sound great, but they should not be ends in themselves. Don't feel bad that you will never be able to play that fast. Concentrate on making better music. You probably can if you work at it.
^^^^^huh?
I love that ****ing track. Those guys own. I used to feel that tracks like that were showing off when I wasn't very good on the instrument. Now that I've practiced and can play fast, I get such inspiration from recordings like that. Check out the Bill Monroe/Doc Watson Live Recordings CD. They do Soldier's Joy even faster, and in the middle Doc yells, "He's the fastest man I've ever seen!" Strong words coming from a blind man.
Also, if you really want to hear fast, search Limewire for Chris Thile/David Grier doing Roanoke and Big Mon. It's 20 bpm faster than Doc, David, or Bill ever play fiddle tunes.
Wow! 20 BPM faster! A new world record, I'm sure.Originally Posted by
Johnny, I agree with you. There's a point with every song when it looses its appeal by being too fast. Technically, it's "cool" to see how fast someone can play, but you won't want to listen to the song over and over.
I personally didn't find that track too fast... I've had to play it even faster myself because of banjo pickers with their motor fingers. Personally I thought that album was very tastefully done. It didn't seem like a contest to me, just three guys having a whole lot of fun. IMHO Soldier's Joy at a snail's pace is boring and obnoxious to play. I do agree that some tunes played too fast lose their appeal. For instace look at the kids videos from last years Symposium on the mandozine website. You want to see competing and too fast for the tune's own good check that out. But I personally didn't find that with the Doc and Dawg album, I play Soldier's Joy at that pace all the time and still find plenty of room the improvise. Enjoy...
P.S. I thought the majority of bluegrass fiddle tunes were supposed to be played at a quicker speed with a little more agressiveness... Oh, what do I know...
Philip Halcomb
Right, just like Joni Mitchell...
Hey, I got an idea that could revoutionize bluegrass music. The record companies should record all bluegrass CDs electronically speeded up 20 BPM. Then all the music would be better, right?
Ok so now the belligerence starts... Mando Johnny, I'm sorry you didn't like the album, I guess you're missing my point... Speed doesn't make better music, you're right. But it does make it a little exciting, for me...
Philip Halcomb
Hey, if you think that's online belligerence, you ain't seen nothin! Don't take that stuff to heart. I just thought your tag line made your statement ironic, that's all. As to the idea for speeding up bluegrass tracks, I really think I'm on to something. If I could just find a way to keep the singers from sounding like the Chipmunks...
Speedy and The High Lonesome Chipmunks......you may have something there!
Ah well let me explain the tag line then... There was an All Star Bluegrass Band show at the Birchmere in 1985. (In case you're not familiar with the band, it included Sam Bush, Bela Fleck, Jerry Douglas, Stuart Duncan, Tony Rice, and Mark Shatz(sp?). Anyhow Jerry Douglas kicked off this real pretty instrumental on the dobro and it was a slower tune. Well, Tony Rice looks over to him and says, "Pick it like Joni Mitchell". It cracked the band up so much they had to stop and start the tune over again...
Anyhow, no worries nothing taken to heart, we all have our own opinions and that's the way it should be... Have a good night...
Philip Halcomb
I've heard a lot of people with the opinion that the lyrics in bluegrass are just there to give the pickers a break. I love bluegrass, but I gravitate toward old-time because I find the music to be more of an expression and less of a show. Just a simple melody, over and over, repetitive, over and over...the each play adds a flare to it...a slide here...a Monk note there...making it real notey...stripping down to quarter note...over and over. Telling a story to tune that everyone understands. I love it.
Capstoner:
Really well said! That is exactly why I switched to old-time and why I love it.
BTW though, what is a "Monk note?" I have not heard that term.
Except that some old time bands tend to all play at the same time, the same thing over and over, becomes something of a cacophonous mess with little variation and dynamics.
But the best of the breed present the music in a pleasing and hip way.
"Monk note" is a reference to the enigmatic jazz pianist/composer Thelonius Monk. #In the late forties and early fifties Monk was part of the scene that gave birth to Bebop. #His cronies then included Dizzie Gillespie, Max Roach and Charlie "Bird" Parker. #Monk's idiosyncratic piano style frequently incorporated dissonant (intentionally "wrong") notes and intervals.
When you think about it, there are many parallels to early bebop and early bluegrass, both in the innovation of dexterity, speed and technique on the instruments, and in the innovative, forward-thinking characters who invented the styles. #The birth of both musics also occur at about the same time in history.
Eric
Well what do you know. Ive been playing (monk ) notes all along and didntd even know it.! except mine aint intentioly LOL.
Kenneth Froman
Yeah, I also know a guy who specializes in "Monk" notes, but I don't think he knows anything about it.....On the topic, I feel every number has a proper tempo..the same song could have a different tempo, at a different time or when played by different people. I have begun to never, ever record without a "beat" track, sometimes comically different than the style of the music being recorded (wild drums to stringband music) but it at least "maintains" whatever the tempo is that you start out with, and allows you to really check how it is a little faster or slower, so you can really check the difference that it makes. The track is dumped after recording, but it's presence will be appreciated forever, when listening back, overdubbing, and by any engineer who has to do some digital editing....
But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
And London never fails to leave me blue
And Paris never was my kinda town
So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues
Thanks for reminding me what a great album this is. Except when they're just "showing off" their speed and technique on a tune like "Summertime".
Doc & Dawg's version of "Sweet Georgia Brown," which I know from watching the Harlem Globetrotters cartoon as a kid (I loved Curley) is really their show off number. They start at a normal pace and speed it up twice.Thanks for reminding me what a great album this is. Except when they're just "showing off" their speed and technique on a tune like "Summertime".
And I STILL haven't gotten that whole tune down.
Daniel
On Click Tracks:
For some things, I know they are unavoidable. But the vast majority of great musicians slow down and speed up during the course of a song's performance for emotional effect. Life doesn't move at a constant, unyielding pace. It has times of haste and times of leisure, and a musical composition moves me the most when it seems more like a human and less like a computer.
Couldn't agree with you more Jeremy...
Philip Halcomb
I personally think a melody wants to be played around a certain tempo. I can't tell you precisely that SJ should be at *THIS* bmp, but I do think there is a 'right' tempo and a 'wrong' tempo. It can be played too fast, and it can be played too slow. (Yeah. I do think those two are going at it too fast on that recording)
Some tunes like Red Haired Boy, Arkansas Traveller, and certain well crafted Bach studies can reveal themselves at several different tempos ... where the longer phrases begin to come together as the tempo increases.
But, I don't think of SJ as being one of the tunes that works well at a fast pace. Rather, I think people play it fast because they've played it so often ... so a fast tempo just becomes an antidote for boredom with the tune.
Same could be said of wild, extended variations ... to my ears, they just inform me the player has a short attention span.
Hey! I do appreciate thick complicated music, but I leave that level of detailed craftwork to those who are(were) up to the task ... Bartok, Stravinski, Mahler, Barber. (Bela, Thile, and Meyer don't quite have the same skill set - IMHO)
- Benig
Which skill set is Chris Thile missing again? I can think of no musician performing today who embodies the dedication, passion, and precision of the Barok/Classical composers more than Chris.
I'm not saying thsoe guys aren't talented ... far from it! But I think they are missing some compositional maturity. None of them are composing works that are as strong, stable and well crafted as almost anything from Igor ... or JSB ... or Gershwin ... (either Gershwin)
So, when I hear talented players behaving like a musical Icarus, I wonder why they feel the need to 'fly so high'. But it's their journey, and they each have numerous fans.
- Benig
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