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Thread: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

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    Registered User Uke Richard's Avatar
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    Default New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Hello,

    I am a guitar player, playing mostly swing music and jazz standards, and I want to learn to play mandolin. I have a shot now at buying one of two Eastman mandolins. One is an MD404 (A with oval hole) and the other one is an MD805V (A with ff). Not in the same price range, I know.

    Being new to mandolin, I am not sure which one to choose. I like both but they do sound a bit different and maybe at this stage in my mando development, I don't know exactly which qualities to look for.

    Which one should I buy? If I choose the less expensive 404, will I outgrow it and then regret not getting the 805 instead?

    Thank you in advance for your help.

  2. #2

    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Type of music are you interested in? That will help point you in the right direction. Have you heard either of looked up YouTube sound clips and does one appeal to you over the other? Playability and setup would be the other question? Do you have the opportunity to see/hear them in person?

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    I wouldn't worry too much about any differences in quality so much. I would choose firstly based on whether you would prefer an F hole mandolin or an Oval. Once that was narrowed down, condition/setup would be the second factor.
    Robert Fear
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    Registered User Uke Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    As I mentioned, I play swing guitar. Swing and jazz standards are the genres I want to play on mandolin as well, ultimately.

    I have access to both mandolins and I can A-B them. Both are brand new and well setup. The MD805V was finished not even two weeks ago and I am the very first one to play it since it left Eastman's. The MD404 has been in the store for a while so it has been played (but no wear, still in mint condition).

    I tried a few Eastman mandolins and these two are the ones that felt better for me. Now as I was saying, I am just beginning mandolin. While I know really well what I want in a guitar and I am competent at describing its qualities, I don't know much about mandolins and what to look for in them.

    So far, I like the fact that the G string on the 404 sounds deeper and rounder, but the 805V A string may sound richer. The 404 might be mellower and the 805V more focused and ringing. Both have good volume and projection. Both sound good but different. I just don't know which qualities I should favour in a mandolin and which one would serve me better in the long run.

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    Down the road I go Trav'linmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Richard, I have a 404 and a 815. I use them on different types of music and different moods. They both sound nice , just different. The 404 , she is used for ballads, ITM and folk. Has a sweet gentle voice , and depending upon the pick used can be fairly loud. The 815 on the other hand, she is rowdy and raucous. Bluegrass and rock n roll is her forte. Something about the shape of the Eastman neck works for me. Notice that I also have a 305 also.
    As was said above , the type of music you play will probably determine the type. FF holes are generally speaking more popular than an oval hole but I love the sound I get from mine. I would suggest you play both if possible , perhaps have someone else play it also. This will allow you to listen to the instrument from a couple of feet away. Good luck.

    Additional thought. The sustain on my 404 is superb.
    Last edited by Trav'linmando; Mar-06-2017 at 4:47pm. Reason: addition
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    I think we all know the obvious answer here. You need to buy both!

    Short of that, it will be a really tough choice, but you won't go wrong with either. If you really have no preference, I might say that the 805V would be the better choice for the reason mentioned above.

    FF holes are generally speaking more popular than an oval hole
    It doesn't make it better though.
    Robert Fear
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    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    You can get a lot of different sounds from the same mandolin by changing to different strings, picks, modifying your technique, etc.
    I would personally go with the 805 because of the neck joining the body at the 15th fret, vs 12th fret on the 404. If you are an accomplished jazz guitar player, it will not be long before you want to play higher up the neck on your mandolin. Go with the 805 and get some D'addario EFW74 flatwound strings for it. Perfect for string jazz & gypsy. The more focused sound of the 805 will also give you tighter rhythm sound for comping manouche, and the ringing high end will help you cut through in solos. If your local dealer can bring in the Eastman MD-505, you might get a similar sound at a lower price

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    805. Have played a few hundred Eastman mandolins. 805 will likely match more music than the 404, and the long neck is very nice.
    Stephen Perry

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    I'm an Eastman 314 oval-hole f style as well as a 615 f-hole model and love them both equally just for different tasks. Depending on what I'm playing but usually it's a mix of bluegrass and jazz and for me I prefer the bite my 615 has and the way it cuts thru in a jam or especially stage situation. I agree with most all the other suggestions as far as picking one out, play it first and decide. That's what sold me on Eastman mandolins to begin after I tried an old 515 shop demo model that was well worn in and I just couldn't believe how good the thing sounded and when I commented the salesperson said Eastman mandolins really open up after a few years of constant playing and their sound matures nicely for an import. I am planning on having a custom F-5 made for me to my specs by a local luthier friend but until I can do that my Eastman(s) more than suffice-great instruments.

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    I am also primarily a guitar player, who is trying to become a good mandolin player. I had an Eastman 815 for a couple of years, and it was a nice mandolin. However, I had difficulty with the neck shape, the flat fret-board, and the small frets. I tried to adapt, but I could never play as cleanly as I wanted. I sold the Eastman and bought a Weber Bitteroot-A. The Weber has a more rounded neck shape, a 10" radius fret-board, and wider frets. The playing difference is huge for me, and I have improved rapidly since changing mandolins. For guitar players, I think the radius board and larger frets provide an easier transition. I also believe my Weber neck is a little wider than the Eastman neck, which also helps. And the icing on the cake is that my Weber sounds much better than my Eastman ever did. So, my advice would be to give consideration to the neck/finger-board/frets of whatever you are considering. The typical Gibson F5 arrangement of narrow neck with sharp V-shape, flat fret-board, and skinny frets, is really hard for most guitar players to adapt to.

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Thanks for the replies so far.

    I already found out that I like v-necks on mandolins as much as I do on guitars. I also like skinny frets. Weber have 10" radius vs. 12" for the Eastman. Not a huge difference but it would be nice, as well as the extra 1/32 at the nut. And Weber are built better and sound better... There is a nice Weber Custom Vintage A with a black top at the shop, but it's out of my price range, that's why I have to stick with Eastman.

    I have played the two Eastmans each day since Monday. I prefer the price and the easthetics of the MD404 (blacktop, oval hole), but I prefer the long neck of the MD805/V. Since they both feel nice and play well, it's really down to the sound, and I am not sure which one I prefer yet. I like different things about the way they sound.

    I am sure the tonal differences are partly due to the choice of tonewood for the back and sides, mahogany for the 404, maple for the 805. The 404 is mellower and sweeter, and the G string sounds big and fat. I like that. The 805 sounds tighter and more lively, and it has more overtones, giving it richness and more complexity. Both different, both good. So I will keep playing them and hopefully find out soon which sound will serve me better once I am a better player...

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Those are fairly common observations of Oval/A4 type vs F/A5. Combination of different top, and also placement of the fretboard. The A5 type like the MD-805 will have a raised fretboard that is above the body, resulting in naturally higher strings over the body and a bit more tension, where the A4 types like the 404 will have the fretboard attached to the top, lowering the strings a bit. Certainly the different woods also contribute. Certainly there are some that do not follow this tonal pattern due to other details, but I would say that you are getting a good education of the differences between Oval and F sounds.

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uke Richard View Post
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    I already found out that I like v-necks on mandolins as much as I do on guitars. I also like skinny frets. Weber have 10" radius vs. 12" for the Eastman. Not a huge difference but it would be nice, as well as the extra 1/32 at the nut. And Weber are built better and sound better... There is a nice Weber Custom Vintage A with a black top at the shop, but it's out of my price range, that's why I have to stick with Eastman.
    I have played the two Eastmans each day since Monday. I prefer the price and the easthetics of the MD404 (blacktop, oval hole), but I prefer the long neck of the MD805/V. Since they both feel nice and play well, it's really down to the sound, and I am not sure which one I prefer yet. I like different things about the way they sound.
    I am sure the tonal differences are partly due to the choice of tonewood for the back and sides, mahogany for the 404, maple for the 805. The 404 is mellower and sweeter, and the G string sounds big and fat. I like that. The 805 sounds tighter and more lively,
    and it has more overtones, giving it richness and more complexity. Both different, both good. So I will keep playing them and hopefully find out soon which sound will serve me better once I am a better player...
    My friend you are already suffering from MAS. It doesn't matter which you buy now, a ff hole or oval hole you have already seen the great but different sound, and you will have to have them both. MAS has no cure and the only treatment is another mandolin. Hello my name is Ricky and I have MAS
    Last edited by Mandoplumb; Mar-09-2017 at 6:26am. Reason: Spelling

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    D'addario EFW74 flatwound strings for it. Perfect for string jazz & gypsy.
    Actually the standard guitar strings for Gypsy jazz are roundwound, not flatwound. Just a thought.

    http://www.savarez.com/argentine-boucle-1510
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    I'd use roundwounds on mandolin too.

    I am an American jazz (Dixie, swing, bop and fusion) AND Gypsy jazz guitarist, and have played mandolin since I was a kid too.

    You can use ANY mandolin for any style of jazz - I have rarely used an archtop mandolin even though I love archtop guitars.

    https://www.eastmanguitars.com/mandolins-a-style-md505

    Do you have access to try a 505?

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Those are fairly common observations of Oval/A4 type vs F/A5. Combination of different top, and also placement of the fretboard. The A5 type like the MD-805 will have a raised fretboard that is above the body, resulting in naturally higher strings over the body and a bit more tension, where the A4 types like the 404 will have the fretboard attached to the top, lowering the strings a bit. Certainly the different woods also contribute. Certainly there are some that do not follow this tonal pattern due to other details, but I would say that you are getting a good education of the differences between Oval and F sounds.
    Thank you for the explanation. It really makes sense and it enlightens me on the way the two models work.

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    Registered User Uke Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    My friend you are already suffering from MAS. It doesn't matter which you buy now, a ff hole or oval hole you have already seen the great but different sound, and you will have to have them both. MAS has no cure and the only treatment is another mandolin. Hello my name is Ricky and I have MAS
    Yes! I know what you mean and this is exactly what I want to stay away from. I already have enough "problems" with the number of guitars. I am determined to get only one mandolin because I know that otherwise, I am opening a whole new can of worms.

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    double post

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    Registered User Uke Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Actually the standard guitar strings for Gypsy jazz are roundwound, not flatwound. Just a thought.

    http://www.savarez.com/argentine-boucle-1510
    http://www.savarez.com/argentine-boule-1610mf



    I'd use roundwounds on mandolin too.

    I am an American jazz (Dixie, swing, bop and fusion) AND Gypsy jazz guitarist, and have played mandolin since I was a kid too.

    You can use ANY mandolin for any style of jazz - I have rarely used an archtop mandolin even though I love archtop guitars.

    https://www.eastmanguitars.com/mandolins-a-style-md505

    Do you have access to try a 505?
    They had a good selection of Eastman mandolins as well as a few Weber, plus a couple Heiden, but these are out of my price range! I am not sure if I played a 505. I know that there was a DGM1 and a DGM2 and a few more conventional A and F style, but I did not pay attention to the models until I ended up these two that felt right.

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    you must have gotten an older 815 as I think they all come with radiused fingerboards standard now ? Correct me if I'm wrong, perhaps this is one of Eastman's more closely copied Gibson models but my 615 has a wider, radiused fingerboard that to me plays very easy. I prefer the v-shaped necks more as I also have a 314 oval-hole with an older, rounder neck style that I use for Celtic and folk music.
    "All music is folk music, i ain't never heard no horse sing a song"- Louie Armstrong

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uke Richard View Post
    Hello,

    I am a guitar player, playing mostly swing music and jazz standards, and I want to learn to play mandolin. I have a shot now at buying one of two Eastman mandolins. One is an MD404 (A with oval hole) and the other one is an MD805V (A with ff). Not in the same price range, I know.

    Being new to mandolin, I am not sure which one to choose. I like both but they do sound a bit different and maybe at this stage in my mando development, I don't know exactly which qualities to look for.

    Which one should I buy? If I choose the less expensive 404, will I outgrow it and then regret not getting the 805 instead?

    Thank you in advance for your help.
    Making reference to the last question in your original post, this is kind of an unusual comparison since the two instruments are 3 levels apart on the Eastman scale (there is no 700-series, that I know of). Since you can obviously afford the 805, I'd say go for it. Or find some higher-level x04s to make a more level-field comparison. 404s are nice but all the components, wood selection, finish etc are much better on the higher end ones.

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    Registered User Uke Richard's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    I knew that I could not afford Heidens, Webers and a couple others. It did not prevent me from trying most of them though. One Heiden, I would definitely have let follow me home but it has many zeros at the end of the price tag for me.

    I knew that I could afford Eastmans, except maybe one (DGM1). So I played every Eastman without paying attention to the name of the model nor the price tag. I am a guitarist but not a mandolinist yet, so I went for feel, playablitily, and whether or not their sound was pleasing. I eliminated a few and that's how I ended up with choosing between an MD404 and an MD805/V; I know, both ate at opposite ends of the spectrum. The one I was specifically coming to try was the first one to be discarded. It was a DGM2. Now I'm not saying they're not good, they're just not for me, at least for now.

    Only then did I learn how much each one would cost me. Thankfully, the shop owner is a long time dear friend and he offered that I bring them home for whatever time I need to pick one or even decide whether mando is for me or not. I litterally could have chosen to bring any mandolins in the store, but I wisely decided to stick with those that I can afford...

    So since bringing them with me, I played them side by side every day, during which I learned to identify the tonal differences but not which one to choose. They are both so nice but in different ways, each one having its thing going on. I may be as close as ever to pick one now. I'll sleep on it tonight and make my final decision tomorrow. I wouldn't mind keeping both. After all they do sound different. but no! I'll stick to the plan: Only. ONE. Mand-olin. Coincidently (or not!) my 1950 Gibson TG50 tenor guitar will be for sale soon.

    Thanks all. You're comments were not always helpful to choose only one, but each of your posts contained one or several bits of information or details that have already started my mandolin education. Thank you!

  35. #23

    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Hmm, are you saying you did try higher-level x04s and just preferred the 404? Interesting, maybe you just happened to hit on an exceptional 404 and should buy it! Might want to upgrade the tuners though.

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    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    Here is a thought - If bluegrass is not your primary interest, you may not need an arch top. A flat top may do everything you want, and might well be more affordable.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  37. #25

    Default Re: New to mando: Eastman MD404 or MD805V?

    At least for me, a year in, I'm still in the process of deciding what I like most. I have one skinny neck v shape and one chunky c shaped neck. I can play them both with the same incompetence. I have one warm and woody and one bright mandolin. Like them both.

    One thing I've found, when playing two similar mandolins, I always like the one costing double.
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