For the older players: arthritis and mandolining

[Moon]

Hi. I am curious how those of you who have developed arthritis are managing. It came on rather quickly for me, first just in my thumbs which wasn't much of an issue, but now it's in my fingers as well. At times I'm much stiffer so fast fingering is difficult, and I can't play for as long because of pain.

Have any of you who suffer from arthritis or other issues with your hands' functions had difficulty, or come up with solutions or exercises or alternate ways to hold, play or otherwise?

Bad enough my walking is limited, so I indulge in more sedate activities like playing mandolin, and now *that's* getting painful and difficult. Aging sucks. >:-(

[AndyPanda]

I'm 63 --- thumbs are where it started for me.

I don't know anyone else who has this experience - but just in case, I'll share it:
I found that coffee makes it worse. When I stop drinking coffee my thumbs get better (not perfect but better than bad) and when I start drinking coffee again, it is my thumbs where I first feel it.

[jhowell]

I'm an older guy who happily misspent a great deal of his youth doing technical rock climbing...this, as it turns out, beat my hands up pretty well. I can no longer play a guitar, but the mandolin lays across my left hand much more like a violin, er fiddle and I can still fret. My mando is set up pretty low, plays nicely and doesn't require a lot of fretting pressure for a pretty inexpensive mando, but its not a bluegrass shredder. I gave it a setup that would have cost more than the mando in most shops. retired is nice from a spare time standpoint. I do use the rice in a bag things that warm in a microwave once in a while to loosen up my fingers and I try to play nearly every day for at least 15 or 20 minutes.

[DHopkins]

I'm 72 and it hit me about 5 years ago but nothing real serious yet. It started in my left wrist and thumb and now I have a little in my right elbow and left knee. Like jhowell, I try to play every day, not only for the arthritis but also to keep the fingers in shape.

I may be luckier than many because it hasn't affected my picking much yet and, if necessary, Aleve generally takes the edge off.

[Mark Gunter]

You wrote, "For the older players" . . . and I'm not one of those, I'm only 62, but have had arthritis for a while. Even young guys can be struck with it. It has attacked both hands pretty well, but on the fretting hand it's the index finger that is most affected. There are some things that help, but what helps most is cutting way back on sugar (the sugar in my coffee is worse than coffee for me, and I still drink my coffee) and playing more and harder. Playing more and harder is sometimes painful, but it helps my range of motion a great deal. Living with pain is pretty much a given for me most of the time, but I don't have to live without playing music yet. Learning new stuff on guitar and mandolin is the only thing that keeps me going some days.

[DHopkins]

There are some things that help, but what helps most is cutting way back on sugar (the sugar in my coffee is worse than coffee for me, and I still drink my coffee)....

If coffee's not one of the major food groups, it should be.

[indexless]

I'm 64 and have found the same about sugar except it's in Vodka, I"m still good with coffee and I have switched to Agave as a sweetener. I stopped a few years ago and my hands have felt much better, if I get in a social scene or have a single drink, I can feel it in the am. I wonder if Moonshine has sugar in it...must not

[catmandu2]

Hi. I am curious how those of you who have developed arthritis are managing. (

My issues led me to give up guitar and mandolin and tenor/plectrum banjo. However, I'm able to play fiddle and oud with no problem, and simple (not jazz) banjo. (I also play other instruments that keep me occupied, so I don't miss the guitar & mandolin much.)

[mandobassman]

(the sugar in my coffee is worse than coffee for me, and I still drink my coffee).

It's amazing that this subject has come up. Just yesterday my wife and I were discussing this very subject. I'm about to turn 57 and had been dealing with the onset of arthritis in my fingers for the past year or so. Has not kept me from playing, but it was starting to be painful at times. We had been doing a lot of research about inflammation and several health issues I had been dealing with were largely caused by inflammation. About 2 months ago I started my journey on a Ketogenic diet by eating very low carbohydrates and no sugar. I had for most of my life been eating a pretty poor diet of very high carb and high sugar foods (lots of sodas and bags of chips and pretzels for daily snacks at work). And I often felt lousy, had little energy, and was dealing with a few other health issues. Without going into too many details, all I can say is that in the past two months I have felt fantastic, have lots more energy, and almost never snack anymore.
Just yesterday, my wife asked me "How do your fingers feel". I suddenly realized that all of the arthritic pain is completely gone. I was also dealing with pain in some other joints (feet, knees, shoulders) and almost all of that discomfort is gone as well. It has taken some getting used to this new way of eating, but I have really enjoyed the benefits it has brought me. I have started to love some new foods so much that I don't even miss the junk. It is so nice to play mandolin pain free.

[Tobin]

My wife, who is only 56, has pretty advanced osteoarthritis that she inherited from her mother. Her finger joints are enlarged and knobby looking. They don't bend like they used to, and they hurt a lot of the time. She has been to the doctor, who told her there's nothing they can do except give her prescription drugs (big surprise). But he did recommend regular exercise and flexing them, so playing the mandolin was actually something he encouraged her to keep doing.

I'll suggest the omission of sugar and coffee to her, but I have a fairly good idea what the answer will be.

[pops1]

Cutting out as many processed foods a you can will help, as will a vegan diet. I have problems, but still eat what i know I am not supposed to. Playing helps, low action and regular movement. I wonder how long I can keep doing what I am doing.

[Beanzy]

51 here and a few years into the osteoarthritis. It hurts especially when I have a big project on in work installing kit.
During times when it flares up I need to back off anything with rapid repetitive vibrations and impacts and avoid lifting or carrying things which put the joints under stress. Digging, drilling, log chopping, sawing or similar activities have to be planned and done in short intervals. Long drives need to be planned and the wheel grip adjusted frequently to avoid 'setting' into an ache.

The mandolin helps keep things loose, as long as I don't do too much Irish music at speed, those fast fills and turns as well as getting over- enthusiastic with the fretting can cause a flare-up. So I ration that a bit more. I thought the fretting would have an effect on the advancement of the knobbly joints and had assumed it would become worse on the left hand, but this is not the dase so far. The hands are an uncanny mirror image of each other, which has me convinced it must be in my genes. I always remember my grandfather having a fine set of knobbly fingers in his 70's, so I assume it's genetic. Anyway I swap between the mandoloncello, mandolin, tenor guitar and fiddle to make sure I'm not getting cramped into one set of movements and keeping the variety.

Keeping the joints warm helps, as does lots of wiggling and stretching. When a swerve to a different activity can't be done then massaging ia 10% ibuprofin gel into the knuckles gets past the pain after a while. But I normally just treat pain as a constant shadow which follows me about and while taking steps to mitigate it. I'm also realistic that it isn't going away so just avoid focussing on it except to monitor things.

I bought a well balanced wide necked mandolin which helped a lot and means I can just stop playing the standard and narrow nut ones but still be mandolinning which is realy nice.
My longer term music strategy currently involves learning cornet in case the left hand does get too clapped-out.
Anyway I'm thinking "use it while you've got it, otherwise when are you saving it up for? " I can always live off the memories of what was, but only if I do it while I can.

[derbex]

"use it while you've got it, otherwise when are you saving it up for? " I can always live off the memories of what was, but only if I do it while I can.

That's how I feel, although since my mum got dementia, I am not so sure about the memory.

I was chatting to a luthier and he recommended the hammer dulcimer for when the arthritis got too bad, mind you he could just have been trying to sell me a dulcimer

[Mike Snyder]

Meloxicam is a newish NSAID that is working for me. Limiting coffee and sugar and heat when needed. Getting old sucks and any alternative sucks worse.

[Dave Hanson]

I'm now 70 years old and I've got both osteo and rheumatoid arthritis, take my word for it, BEER is the only answer.

Dave H

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'm 72 (Jan.this year). I don't have arthritis in my hands,but do have it to a small degree in both hips. However,i do suffer from Tendontis to a degree in both hands & Trigger Finger pretty badly in my right middle finger

I had an operation 15 years or so ago on on my left middle finger & thumb which were triggering badly - so badly in fact, that once i'd got hold of my banjo neck,i couldn't let go unless i opened my thumb/finger with my right hand. After the op.,i had a number of physio. sessions & one of the things i was told to do at home was to get a bowl full of water, as hot as i could stand,& to soak my hands & a face cloth in the water for several minutes. After that,take the face cloth & wring it out as hard as i could several times. The tension & then relaxation really loosened my fingers up. If i feel that my hands are a tad stiff,i still do it & it really does help,
Ivan

[Robert Mitchell]

Two years ago,,I had arthritis so bad in my left hand middle finger
Icould not use it!! I opted for surgery which let me at least bend it
about 80% of normal. It is however,,useless for playing the mandolin!
So I started playing using my pinky..Now after all this time I'm close
to being back to normal capability.
I'll be 79 this year and hope to keep on pickin!!
Good luck to all the seniors,,try whatever works,,J.D. helps!!

[Jess L.]

... alternate ways to hold, play or otherwise? ...

I do all my *practicing* using super-light gauge strings on a capo'd fifths-tuned (same as mandolin) solid-body electric guitar. In addition to much lower string tension, the strings are *not* doubled like on mandolin. It suffices for practice because it gets me familiar with where the notes are, when trying to learn a tune. Also it has less damaging impact on right/picking hand too, because a very light touch is all that's required, electrics are *so* delightfully responsive they don't need to be thrashed to get some sound out of them. (Incidentally, for most of my electric practicing I use headphones instead of the amplifier's speaker, so there are no loud "volume issues" that people sometimes associate with electric instruments.)

My actual current beater mandolin also uses extra-light strings *and* it's the equivalent of being tuned down one-half step lower than standard. That latter part resulted from an unintentional incident with me being stupid when I was trying to cut slots in the cheap plastic nut and I got several of the slots too low so that the strings were actually using the 1st fret as their 'nut'. I figured, what the heck, while awaiting a new nut I'd just make *all* the strings like that and play it that way temporarily, then I decided to just keep it that way because it's easier to play. So in essence it's like having a capo on the 1st fret all the time, the end result turns out as GDAE. It doesn't have much volume, so it wouldn't be good for public loud settings, but it's alright for a home instrument to plunk around on.

Also, for me, no full chords, on any fretted instrument. So I mostly do the melody thing instead, which is fine because I used to be a fiddler so it comes naturally. Sometimes I do 2-note 'chords' or sort of faux arpeggio stuff too, when trying to do backing.

[Al Trujillo]

I'm 61 here and the bases of my thumbs hurt quite a bit...my fingers are just rather stiff. I run hot water over them before I play to warm them up and have been taking Meloxicam to reduce inflammation - my Dr. told me I was taking too much of other OTC pain meds and he didn't want my liver to suffer. Where its legal I've heard mixed reports about some of the lotions sold at MJ pharmaceuticals. I've tried one but not enough to tell the difference yet. My 98 year-old grandma always told me not to grow old..but she couldn't suggest any alternatives.

[catmandu2]

I'm 61 here and the bases of my thumbs hurt quite a bit...

I'm still a decade behind you, but the bases of the thumbs are my issue - rendering it impossible for me to play flamenco guitar (heavy on the alzapua - right-hand thumb technique) as well as 'chording' instruments (in a jazz/chordal style) without pain the next several days. For a while I mitigated this by playing a narrow-necked instrument with lower string tension (plectrum banjo), and with a 'thumb-over-the-top' style (a la Hendrix) reducing the wrist arch and consequently the pressure exerted on my left-hand thumb. But alas jazz chording is just too much for me now - I naturally slip back into arched-wrist/thumb-fulcrum when the playing gets going. It's back to fiddle and oud for my neck-stringed instrument playing.

[pops1]

Just got this in an email,

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/7-e...arthritis.html

I haven't tried any of the oils, but thought I would put it out there.

[G7MOF]

A friend of mine plays classical guitar and suffers with bad Arthritis. He gets nettles and crushes them in his hand. Yes this is painful but it relieves all the arthritic pain and allows him to play.
The nettles only cause pain for a short while but whatever is in the acid works for him for a whole evening.

[pops1]

A friend of mine plays classical guitar and suffers with bad Arthritis. He gets nettles and crushes them in his hand. Yes this is painful but it relieves all the arthritic pain and allows him to play.
The nettles only cause pain for a short while but whatever is in the acid works for him for a whole evening.

I do this in the summer, but it only works for a few weeks. Drinking tea made from Canadian thistle when it is young works too.

[LadysSolo]

Keeping my hands warm, Extra strength Tylenol with an Ibuprofen helps, Chondroitin and glucosamine supplement seems to help a little too. Keeping my fingers active is also important, keeps them loosened up. The warmth is for me the most important. The chondroitin and glucosamine took about 6 months before I noticed a difference (apparently very slow acting.)

[CES]

Caution with NSAIDS if you have kidney disease or are on an ace inhibitor, ARB, or spironolactone. For those of you noticing that alcohol may trigger pain, check with your PCP regarding gout...