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Thread: A new mandolin design

  1. #1
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default A new mandolin design

    Some of you might be interested in my latest project, especially after the discussion about arching.

    This mandolin is the end result of a project I have been working on and off for around a year. The aim was to design a completely new arch top oval hole mandolin, based on my two point Lyon and Healy reproduction, but simpler and easier to make and thus cheaper for the customer. It is a bit like a modernised Lyon and Healy style C, but is quite different from the original vintage instruments. I have always breathed a sigh of relief after making one of the reproductions because they are very fiddly and rather a lot of work. However the sound is devine, and I always change my mind and say it was all worth it in the end. So the main structural aspects remain because that is what determines the sound, but since it no longer needs to look like a Lyon and Healy mandolin, that frees me up to try all sorts of things such as different woods. This one is Aussie timbers only except for the Ebony fingerboard and headstock overlay. The principle is to make the mandolin as light as possible, but to do that the mandolin needs a few changes from what I normally do with my oval hole mandolins. The arch is higher, and the neck angle is lower so the bridge is around 5mm lower. It also has a smaller body and scale length of 13 & ¾ which is 1/8th inch shorter. Added together these make it much less likely for a thinner top to collapse. The top is 4mm in the centre and 2mm in the recurve, so quite a bit thinner than my Gibson style of oval hole (~6mm and 3mm). I used the templates I made from my original L&H to get the arch, but the recurve is less prominent. I wanted an adjustable bridge, but at a height of 15mm rather than the usual 20mm that was to be a challenge. In the end Vern Brekke designed and made a brand new Brekke bridge for me, thank you Vern. The tailpiece is the same as what I used on the Lyon and Healy reproduction because people seem to like it and it works extremely well. The top is X braced with Oregon (i.e. Douglas Fir) bracing. Oregon is stiffer than Spruce, but a bit heavier. The extra weight is not significant because the bracing is less then 5% of the total weight of the top. The final top was only about 12gm heavier than the tops on my flat top mandolins.
    The pickguard caused a few sleepless nights because I wanted to improve the way it was mounted. The vintage L&H mandolins have a screw through the pickguard and a pin that fits into the fingerboard, but it is not very firm and the pickguard does tend to flap around a bit. The screw is a steel screw that rusts in many of the vintage mandolins which makes it almost impossible to remove the pickguard. I ended up using two M2.5 stainless steel screws that self thread into the Ebony fingerboard, Very tricky to implement because there is not a lot of wood to screw into and the pickguard needs to be mounted at the correct angle. Thankfully I managed to get it all lined up properly and the pickguard is much firmer. The neck attachment is a dovetail as usual, but there is a riser block (missing on the vintage mandolins) to make the top binding easier. The way L&H did the binding close to the neck is impossible to do with wood because you need to bend and twist it at the same time. Neck has a carbon fibre rod for reinforcement.

    For the first prototype I decided to use King Billy Pine and Tasmanian Blackwood because that combination has produced many lovely sweet and clear sounding mandolins for me, and I had a hunch it might produce something quite special. So top is KBP, B&S and neck is Blackwood, bindings are Ivorywood, pickguard Blackheart Sassafras, fingerboard Macassar ebony. Something very special this mandolin certainly is. So special it is likely to redefine how I make most of my oval hole mandolins. Blew away one of the best Gibson style of mandolins I have made to date. Beautiful sweet clear tone and so loud and responsive. So lively the whole instrument seems to vibrate in your hands, and massive ring and sustain that seems to go on forever. Huge dynamic range. Plays beautifully picked very softly, but you can really crank up the volume. It seems to combine the best of the flat tops (volume and sustain) and the carved top mandolins (refined tone). I can't put this thing down. It jumps out of the case every time I walk past it. Wow! Very exciting. Crunch time came when I brought it to a noisy session. Passed with flying colours. Most common comment from other mando players was “wow”. Jolly well pleased after 12 months of many sleepless nights thinking about how to make this thing work. Can hardly wait to make the next one.
    Here are some pictures

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    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
    http://www.petercoombe.com

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  3. #2
    Registered User Steve VandeWater's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    It's beautiful!
    It ain't gotta be perfect, as long as it's perfect enough!

  4. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Nice, Peter. I like the looks of that one. I am looking fwd to hearing the sound some time.
    Jim

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  5. #4
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    ''Simply'' beautiful Peter !!. The wood combination is delicious. It's so simple (in the nicest way), that i feel that even the Abalone fret markers detract from it - my opinion. Without,i feel that it would have a really 'classical' beauty - nicely done,
    Ivan
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  6. #5
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Peter how deep is the neck with fretboard on?

  7. #6
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    This kind of supple, subtle refinement is, in my opinion, what distinguishes a master from a journeyman. The instrument and description make me very happy, and sorry to be hundreds of miles from my shop!
    Stephen Perry

  8. #7
    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    I'm not a maker and didn't delve deeply into your instrument's specs, but holy moly, that is one beautiful instrument. Understated and elegant, letting the woods speak for themselves.
    For wooden musical fun that doesn't involve strumming, check out:
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  9. #8
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    very nice! I want it just from the photos! Really, right up my alley!

    f-d
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  10. #9

    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Gorgeous. I love the look of the old Lyon & Healy mandolins. Yours really has the vibe. Do you make those tailpieces?
    2010 Heiden A5, 2020 Pomeroy oval A, 2013 Kentucky KM1000 F5, 2012 Girouard A Mandola w ff holes, 2001 Old Wave A oval octave
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  11. #10
    Registered User John Soper's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Elegant and simple design with fabulous woods - and the tailpiece is like a crown jewel! Would love to hear sound clips.

  12. #11
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    My recording setup is not working at the moment so can't do any sound clips until I get it working or set up a new system. That might take a while. I did not make the tailpiece. It was made by a silversmith to my specifications. It is a very simple design, based on a Gibson style of tailpiece but with a different cover. The cover has felt glued on underneath and it slides on and presses on the strings so it very effectively dampens the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece.

    Now something quite odd that some of you might have some ideas on. For some reason, Thomasic strings don't seem to work on this mandolin. I tried a set and the sound took a downwards dive. Not only that but the A strings broke. Thomastics turned into an expensive mistake. This is in contrast to my L&H reproduction where I think Thomastics definitely sound better than the D'Addario FT74 I usually use. It might be the different wood combination, or the Brekke bridge, or something else, I really have no idea what the reason for this might be.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
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  13. #12
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Peter - Tom Ellis recommends GHS A270's for his mandolins. On my Ellis "A" style,they sound sweet but 'powerful' - when you want them to,but sweet & 'refined' if you want that tone. They are a very 'musical' string & a set might be worth trying on this mandolin.
    I found them to be quite different to J74's ,
    Ivan
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  14. #13
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Beautiful. You nailed it.
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  15. #14
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    I've really been digging Straight Up strings mediums.

  16. #15
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    You said the neck angle is lower, the scale length is shorter, the arch higher. The Thomastic strings have less tension, so is it possible the higher arch needs to be driven a little more, but the shorter scale and shallower neck angle have less down pressure on the top with the lighter tension strings?
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  17. #16
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    You said the neck angle is lower, the scale length is shorter, the arch higher. The Thomastic strings have less tension, so is it possible the higher arch needs to be driven a little more, but the shorter scale and shallower neck angle have less down pressure on the top with the lighter tension strings?
    Well that is something that could be a factor, but then why do the Thomastics sound so good on my L&H reproduction. That has the same neck angle, arching and scale length.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
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  19. #17
    Registered User Joey Anchors's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    Pyramid "Gold" 532 are a good set of flatwound strings.

    Peter, This is a gorgeous oval and on my short list for when it's time for me to upgrade.
    Waterloo WL-M

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  20. #18
    Resonate globally Pete Jenner's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new mandolin design

    This is a great post Peter. You are one of the real innovators and experimenters in my opinion. Thanks for sharing this, it's invaluable information for builders and a pretty good read. It's also great to see you are still collaborating with Verne - he's a very underrated talent in this business in my opinion.
    The more I learn, the less I know.

    Peter Jenner
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