Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 36 of 36

Thread: Truss Rod Profile

  1. #26
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Zanesville, Ohio
    Posts
    2,490

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Ok call me stupid, but how in the dickins did they think, gee lets hollow out the tiny neck right through the nut area and put a steel rod in there, that'll last 100 years or more. Was it just a gander that they then decided to build a line of mandos with the truss rod and hope for the best? That area around the nut has such minimal amount of wood, the last thing I'd want to do is hollow it out. The possibility of it twisting there is too great. But they did it anyway, and thus here we are.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    All the hollowed out part gets replaced with wood so I don't see it as weakening the structure at all.
    Last edited by Jim Hilburn; Feb-15-2017 at 11:59am.

  3. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    2,573

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Under the truss rod cover at the smallest point in the neck ( less wood) is hollowed out and left open, just a cover over the hole.

  4. #29
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,452

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    Under the truss rod cover at the smallest point in the neck ( less wood) is hollowed out and left open, just a cover over the hole.
    Old Gibsons had the pocket casrved way up the headstock right where the wide part of the headstock begins so not much strength was sacrificed.
    Many modern mandolins have the pocket right at the nut.
    Adrian

  5. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    2,573

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    Old Gibsons had the pocket casrved way up the headstock right where the wide part of the headstock begins so not much strength was sacrificed.
    Many modern mandolins have the pocket right at the nut.
    Correct and that is about the smallest place on the neck. In my opinion it should be further up but could that bebdone

  6. #31
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,859

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    ...In my opinion it should be further up but could that bebdone
    It can be done and is done, except by some makers who "didn't get the memo" that they can avoid overly weakening the neck by placing the truss rod pocket well into the peghead rather than at the nut. Also, some truss rod manufacturers seem to have missed the "memo" also, so users of those rods must sacrifice some neck strength.

  7. #32
    Matt Cushman Cush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Great Falls, MT
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    The truss rod pocket is associated with breaks at the headstock neck area from accidental impact. In an effort to maintain a little strength I like to use a small allen headed sleeve type nut for the T R. With this type of nut the T R pocket only needs to be large enough to accept the washer. The difference is slight but more wood remaining is stronger than less wood remaining.

  8. The following members say thank you to Cush for this post:

    hank 

  9. #33

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    I've been down several roads with trussrods. One was the LMI one way like Oliver shows. They were really just shortened guitar rods, 1/4" wide and I thought they would really work on a mandolin. However one mandolin I sent out ended up in the shop of a highly respected luthier who said it was practically ineffective. Now I've been accused of making necks that aren't particularly petite and that could be part of it.
    However I plowed ahead with this concept and had a bro in law make these for me which I thought would be more suited to the mandolin. 2 pieces, made of stainless and 3/16" wide.
    On one that I sent out I don't know what the issue was, but the owner cranked down on it to the point it ran out of thread, became permanently fused but also separated the fingerboard from the neck at the nut, indicating it was trying to do what it was supposed to.
    At that point is when I decided to do what it took to install the Loar style rods which I sourced from Cumberland. This experience made me re-think the whole thing and a conclusion I came to was that the steel bar type rods work for longer necks like guitar but on the short mandolin neck just can't get enough leverage compared to a compression rod. I actually had Steve make me some 2 way's for my octaves, but never again on a mandolin.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tr.jpg 
Views:	123 
Size:	533.4 KB 
ID:	154082  

  10. The following members say thank you to Jim Hilburn for this post:

    hank 

  11. #34
    Henry Lawton hank's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The Present Moment
    Posts
    1,950

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Good Morning All. Let me try to elaborate on the knowledge I have gathered here with a questions added. The Genius in Ted’s design is moving the neck/fingerboard in a way that actually strengthens the composite neck/headstock structure of wood and steel. Like Adrian’s example in bow building the breaking forces have been relocated. What gives me pause is the channel cut in the back of the neck filled with an Ebony or dark colored wood strip. There can’t be much distance between this deco strip and a deeply set truss rod. Does this strip add or reduce the stiffness of the neck wood as a lamination or is it purely ornamental?
    "A sudden clash of thunder, the mind doors burst open, and lo, there sits old man Buddha-nature in all his homeliness."
    CHAO-PIEN

  12. #35
    Adrian Minarovic
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, Europe
    Posts
    3,452

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    Quote Originally Posted by hank View Post
    Good Morning All. Let me try to elaborate on the knowledge I have gathered here with a questions added. The Genius in Ted’s design is moving the neck/fingerboard in a way that actually strengthens the composite neck/headstock structure of wood and steel. Like Adrian’s example in bow building the breaking forces have been relocated. What gives me pause is the channel cut in the back of the neck filled with an Ebony or dark colored wood strip. There can’t be much distance between this deco strip and a deeply set truss rod. Does this strip add or reduce the stiffness of the neck wood as a lamination or is it purely ornamental?
    That strip is either lamination that goes through the neck (and big chunk is routed away for the truss rod channel) or inlaid thin strip (like old F-4s) that is barely 1/16 deep. Some transition F-4 s had both triangular maple insert, black strip inlaid on back and trussrod istalled into that. They just used up the prepared neck blanks with maple insert and black strip and installed the new truss rod.

    One more thing that comes to my mind is how bow (shooting) reacts when you press the bowstring against handle (bend it in opposite direction of normal) - the bow still bends like usual as the ends of the string are pulled together and the force "against" the bending is negligible to the bow bending forces.
    Adrian

  13. The following members say thank you to HoGo for this post:

    hank 

  14. #36

    Default Re: Truss Rod Profile

    This is a great thread and its things like this that make joining this forum very worthwhile. I had no idea that there were trussrods like this where the curve is backwards as compared to traditional guitar necks. 20 years working and making guitars and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what seems to me an upside down curve. I've x-rayed Fender and Warmoth guitar necks and have encountered a Gibson guitar with a trussrod slot cut so deep that it became visible on the back of the neck from wear ('67 Gibson SG) under the 5th fret. I suppose that its the comparatively thin neck of a mandolin that leads to the different trussrod configuration used by some makers. I could understand a very straight trussrod being installed as deep into the neck as possible from nut to the deepest part of the heel. The hardness of the fretboard (as a fulcrum) combined with the depth could pull out relief but the curve I wouldn't think would be advantageous to the intent. However, I gotta believe what I see from makers with far more experience than I. I'm primarily interested in electric mandolas and octave mandolins so I'll stick with what I know. I like compression rods that are concave to the fretboard deep in the mid neck and shallowest at the nut and heel. I also appreciate it when the result is a sight engagement of compression to bring back a small excess amount of relief putting the trussrod in actual control and functioning. Its a disappointment to have a totally static rod under no tension and a failure if the neck requires scary tension. The same thing goes if I'm using a dual trussrod. I always want the trussrod to be having an influence to remove a slight amount of relief. For me, instruments that require reverse trussrod influence are undesirable although I've seen quite a few that play just fine. I have seen a few factory dual action rods that have forced the fretboard to depart the neck but I have always blamed this on poor gluing techniques and/or inappropriate glue. But I've also seen as many detached fretboards that had nothing to do with the trussrod -- just lack of attention during manufacture. Using plain Titebond, I've never had a fretboard detach from dual action trussrod force but I could see it happening if some detail was overlooked. I think if you follow good plans and practice recommended techniques, your choice of trussrod is going to work.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •