Sigma / Martin ? Martin....Sigma ??

[NEH57]

I understand the basics of Martin & Sigma, but what would the likely back story to this be ?
Looks in a bad photo, to be a 'Martin' logo, but on a typically Sigma style 'head' and with an apparent truss rod cover ?

I appreciate people can ( & do ) buy decals for 'fun'.

'A' style, F hole Mandolin. Supposedly has some age. I can not find reference to a 'real' Martin in similar style trim.

[fentonjames]

made in japan in the 80's is my guess.

[EdHanrahan]

Do you have the actual mandolin, or just the bad photo? I was fooled once by a stage performer (from only 20 feet away) whose guitar's apparent "CF Martin" logo turned out to be the copy/look-alike "Takamine" logo. They were from maybe the late '80s or early '90s.

[NEH57]

'Bad' photo only, I'm afraid. Funny do, I noticed it last night and was trying to work out which Mandolin companies had an "& Co" ending to their brand name. This morning I ( or rather my wife ) recovered a dropped guitar pick which came out of a case I recently had delivered and it is a Martin pick and the logo struck me as pretty similar, which, despite the poor picture, it clearly is to C. F. Martin & Co.

I am aware of the 'Martin' decals being sold on the Net so it could just be someones kid'ology. I have looked at the Sigma Martin Mandolin images, which appear to be the same design in many if not all respects, but this one ( from the bad photo ) doesn't have any of the typical Sigma inlays on the head-stock. It could be a 'tweaked' & re-badged Sigma, or it could just be A.N.Other generic F.E. instrument with a 'transfer' for the fun of it and to impress girls/or fellow muso's.

I did wonder if for any period of time before branding their F.E. instruments as Sigma, Martin labelled any as "Martin" but the closest I can find is a reference to Nazareth USA 'constructed' guitars from imported F.E. Sigma parts....which were still branded as Sigma anyway.

[allenhopkins]

I like the "Martin decal" theory. Labels and headstock decals from Martin, Gibson, Fender et. al. are really easy to obtain. I've never seen an Asian import actually labeled "Martin," and C F Martin Co. was pretty careful to reserve that designation to instruments they built (well, until they started making ukuleles in Mexico). There were Sigma, Shenandoah, Vega (guitars) sold by Martin, made in Asia and Europe.

[ollaimh]

i answered a for sale ad--very excitedly i might add--for 1928 martin o 28. it was oak body that the seller swore was brazillian rosewood, and no model number on the block and no wood burned label, but a very shiny new looking logo on the head stock. i was shocked. total fraud. mu local repair guy said the good quality logos fakes are easy to get or make. he gets an artist to make his logo, he said it could be done professionally for any logo. then there;s the ones on the internet. however a fairly transparent scam in both cases.

[Luna Pick]

Years ago I had a Sigma D-41 that was a beautiful looking and sounding guitar. The peghead was shaped exactly like a Martin, and where it said "Sigma" on the peghead it look like a previous name had been removed, and the pattern looked just like the CF Martin logo. I bought the guitar from a friend who was a Sigma dealer, and told me that Martin was slapping the Sigma logo on Martins that were factory seconds and reselling as Sigmas. I had no reason to doubt him or way to prove it either way, but it was a very nice guitar for the money. Seems similar to some of this posts in this thread.

[Jeff Mando]

That is the stuff or urban legend, but unfortunately false. While the "import" version looks a lot like its domestic brethren and are often very nice instruments in their own right, there are details which always tell the story. Usually the number one "tell" is the USA instrument has a lacquer finish and the import has a poly finish. And yes, some of the early poly finishes were very thin and not too offensive, but usually you can tell upon inspection........

Cheaper tuners are another.......which can be changed, of course.....

Carefully concealed laminate tops where the soundhole is beveled in a way that makes it difficult to see (on purpose) ..... that being said, I've played some amazing sounding laminate tops over the years!

[Luna Pick]

Maybe. There was also a mark on the inside of the back where Martin burns its logo. I was/am no finish expert, but it looked normal, not cheap, to me.

This was years ago in Anchorage, pre-internet, and not exactly in the urban core of urban legendland. Would it have made sense to ship such instruments to Alaska? I've since sold it, and have no opinion on the subject either way, just passing what I was told at that time, and found it related to this thread.

[Jeff Mando]

I didn't mean to come off as a smart aleck, it just that it seems I've studied guitars and their details 24 hours a day for the last 50 years. I'm not saying you're wrong, anything is possible. The better Sigma guitars did have the burn mark on the inside back strip. But, for reputation alone, Martin would have a huge stake in not letting that happen. Again, just my opinion.

[Luna Pick]

I just found a couple photos I used to sell it on Craigslist. Rather than hijack the thread feel free to PM if you are interested and I'll send them to you and you can see what you think.

[NEH57]

Well, it didn't come my way. Listed as 'Free to a good home' having been untouched/used since being gifted to the person listing it some 'years' since. Seemed a genuine enough person, with other free listings up at the same time and a decent period of history on the site . I happened to have a pal in the same city, so threw a hat into the ring as it was collection only. It was offered up at about 11pm....which is an odd time. I emailed at about 8am the next morning but heard nothing ( despite a follow up email the next evening in case it had gone into a 'Spam' folder ) Finally got a 'sorry, it's gone' email late on Saturday evening. It was email contact only, so my 'ballot' was in the lottery but probably first in, last out ! Hopefully gone to someone who will enjoy it - whatever it is/was. Not disappointed as it was idle curiosity only! I have my hands full with mysteries and mulling as it is.

[Jeff Mando]

I have a lot of respect for a man who does such thorough research on a free "purchase!"