Non-stick Pickguards?

[Ray(T)]

I want to protect the top of my new mandola from fingernail and pick marks with some of the clear plastic "stuff" - the stuff that sticks electrostatically or somehow. The question is, what is it called and where can I get hold of it in the UK?

I raised the subject at one of the sessions last week and a couple of people suggested I use 'phone/tablet screen protector material which is cheap enough and easily available. The question then is what's it made of? If it contains vinyl that would harm a nitro finish - any ideas?

[Nevin]

Here is some info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_protector

[Steve Ostrander]

I would be wary of the long term effect of having the adhesive on the finish of my instrument. Let those pick marks show! It proves that you're a player and not a newbie!

[sblock]

Be careful!! Those non-stick plastic protectors, which cling by static, are most often made from a soft vinyl plastic. They will adhere just fine to a polymer finish, and probably to a varnish one as well (not that I would trust anything on these!), but they INTERACT CHEMICALLY with nitrocellulose lacquer finishes. Long-term application will cause the residual vinyl plasticizers (which keep it soft and flexible) to slowly leach out of the protector and into the finish, causing the nitrocellulose to swell. This can permanently damage the finish, clouding it and changing both its thickness and hardness. I speak from experience. Don't use them on nitrocellulose finish!! They work well with catalyzed polymer finishes (like on Taylor guitars; in fact, Taylor makes and sells some nonstick pickguards). But not on nitrocellulose; at least not on a long-term basis. You can read about what Frank Ford has to say about vinyl interacting with nitro finish on his frets.com website, here.

[Ray(T)]

It's the ones without adhesive I'm looking at. The wiki article makes no mention of them being made of vinyl. I'm fully aware of the problems associated with the interaction between nitro finishes and vinyl - I've managed to avoid the problem for the last 50 years which is why I've asked the question.

[sblock]

I see that LMI is selling a plastic removeable pickguard that they specifically claim is NOT made from vinyl (unlike so many of these that are sold out there), available here. (NFI). I have no experience with these, but perhaps they will work? I certainly would not trust them unless someone else had first tried them out on a similar finish for at least several months, though!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Ray - ''If in doubt don't'' !. & congrats on your new Mandola - so that's why you needed another strap from Rod at Pinegrove ??.

Sheer terror at the thought of marking any of my mandolins keeps my fingers & pick well away from the top. It didn't seem to bother the original owner of my Ellis though. There's more marks on it than i've put on any group of instruments in 53 years of playing.
It's not quite as bad as that statement might make it seem,but there are still 'more' marks. Not finger or pick marks,but dings & scratches. I won't mention the whacking great strap pin screwed into the neck (ooops !,i just did),
Ivan

[Ray(T)]

sblock - the blurb with the LMI pickguards says that they should be removed when not in use to that sort of defeats the object.

Ivan - how did you guess! Of my three main mandolins only, one doesn't have a pick-guard and, over the past 15 years, this has gathered an array of chips and marks which might have been avoided if it had had One. That said, it (each) has a varnish finish and possibly this is more susceptible to being marked whereas fully cured nitro may be somewhat harder and more resilliant.

A friend of mine has the offending screen protectors on his Macaferri clone so I'll ask him or his luthier what it's finished with.

[sblock]

sblock - the blurb with the LMI pickguards says that they should be removed when not in use to that sort of defeats the object.

Hmmm. Sort of makes you wonder if the material that they use will damage the finish after long-term contact, doesn't it?! If not, then why remove it? I would shy away from such things. I have real pickguards installed on my mandolins. I had to retrain my right hand not to interfere with these when picking, but that was time well spent!

[mandroid]

This a Flat Top?.. Remove-ability may have an added benefit , if , after you put it on, you find the top vibration dampened, and So, sound qualities, not as satisfactory.

[Nevin]

They use static electricity to cling. Over time it is likely to equalize and drop off.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Ray - The way i hold my pick & my hand position when playing, simply doesn't allow for any ''top touching'' . Different folk have different ways of doing it. The body of my 9 year old Weber still looks like new. The only marks are fingerboard & fret wear,my Lebeda is the same.

I do like pickguards & only removed the one on my Lebeda because it was such an anonymous piece of Ebony,that it did nothing for the mandolin,only covered up the much nicer looking top grain !. I'd love a decent one for my Weber Fern. A nice,edge bound,abreviated faux t/shell one would look terrific,i'm simply not willing to fork out the cash + tax on one,especially as it's something that's not really required,
Ivan

[Ray(T)]

Yes, I know its all down to technique but I'd rather concentrate on getting the best sound out of my instruments than worrying about not damaging the tops. Intestingly, the only one with the dinks is the one without the pickguard.

Off the peg pickguards are, in my mind, over-priced. I had a local luthier make and fit an ebony one on my OM and he charged me less than it would have me to buy one. The main problem comes in fitting one. He needed to make a jig to get the thing in exactly the right place and drill holes that would allow it to be a firm, push-on, fit. He did a superb job but it was such a headache getting it right that I don't feel able to ask him to fit one on the mandola. Its clearly an easier job if you plan for it before attaching the fretboard.

[sblock]

Yes, I know its all down to technique but I'd rather concentrate on getting the best sound out of my instruments than worrying about not damaging the tops. Intestingly, the only one with the dinks is the one without the pickguard.

Off the peg pickguards are, in my mind, over-priced. I had a local luthier make and fit an ebony one on my OM and he charged me less than it would have me to buy one. The main problem comes in fitting one. He needed to make a jig to get the thing in exactly the right place and drill holes that would allow it to be a firm, push-on, fit. He did a superb job but it was such a headache getting it right that I don't feel able to ask him to fit one on the mandola. Its clearly an easier job if you plan for it before attaching the fretboard.

I have fit several bound, ebony pickguards to my mandolins by myself, and I never needed a jig for the job! These guards were purchased either from Stew-Mac or from Doug Edwards at Hill Country Stringworks. They slip on and fit tightly, with no adhesives, and they do not fall off or get askew. The trick is to get the hole spacing just right, and to purchase a long enough drill bit, so that you can drill the hole without having the drill touch the instrument. I got special 1/8" drill bit that's about 6" long for just a few bucks, purchased online. I usually use a small hand-cranked drill, but a drill bit attached to a variable-speed Dremel Moto-tool (with a flexible shaft) also works. You can also lightly bend the two pins on the pickguard to make them fit tighter in the holes.

I certainly don't feel that this is some difficult job best left to a specialist. In fact, Doug Edwards provides free mounting instructions with his pickguards. He also sells a 6" long 5/64 drill bit, in case you can't find one, for $5.

[Ray(T)]

I'm no luthier but its clear that, if you get it wrong, you're stuffed. It wasn't a cheap instrument and my local luthier was simply acting on the advice of the person who originally built the OM - I won't say who but you'll have heard of him!

[mandroid]

{ carved top }

I Got the Mock Tortoise Plastic and did a DIY, on my mandola, (Local shop did the finger board edge nail hole..)

But for my Lebeda Mandolin I got an unbound one from Steve Smith/ Cumberland Acoustics..


[ my buddy got a glued on guitar like pick-guard for his TC Flat Top Irish Zouk ]

[sblock]

I'm no luthier but its clear that, if you get it wrong, you're stuffed. It wasn't a cheap instrument and my local luthier was simply acting on the advice of the person who originally built the OM - I won't say who but you'll have heard of him!

It's true that you need to drill two holes below the underside of your fingerboard, usually into the raised fingerboard extender support. But these holes are both small and relatively easy to locate, since you can trial-fit the pickguard and use its twin pins to locate the spots for these holes pretty trivially. It's also true that you need to drill the holes level with the fretboard, or the pickguard will wind up tilted (although some folks prefer a tiny a bit of tilt to these, down away from the fretboard). But if you're off by a small amount, you can always bend the mounting pins slightly, and no one will ever see. Believe me, it doesn't take a skilled luthier to do this job! And two of the mandolins that I mounted pickguards on are worth well over $5,000 apiece, so we're not exactly talking about "cheap instruments" here, either.

But if you are afraid that you'll somehow screw up and destroy your instrument, by all means pay for an expert to do it for you. As my high school coach was so fond of saying: "If you think you can't, then you're right: you can't!"

[Ray(T)]

Only $5000!

[sblock]

No, Ray! You're being silly. A careful reading will show that I wrote "well over $5,000." I am not revealing the price -- I was just saying it wasn't cheap. That said, I would have no qualms about mounting a pickguard to an Altman, an Ellis, a Nugget, a Dudenbostel, a Monteleone, a Gilchrist, etc. I probably would balk at drilling pickguard mounting holes into an original 1922-24 Loar-signed Gibson Master Model, though. But that's because doing so would probably devalue it. Besides, they all came with the holes pre-drilled and a full-size pickguard, so there would be no need!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Fitting a pickguard should be pretty easy to do. Once you've decided where it should go,& have marked a reference point on the mandolin in order to position it,make a cardboard template with the same ref.point & the fixing hole positions relative to it. Use an awl to pierce the template at the fixing hole positions,position the template to the mandolin using.the ref.point, & again,using the awl,mark the fixing holes on the mandolin neck. I'd use a hand held ''pin drill'' to drill the holes in the neck. That's for guards that use 'pins' to fix them.
For a guard that uses screws,then i'd do pretty much the same to establish the mounting bracket / hole positions.
Ivan