Pro Set Up Worthwhile on A Student Mandolin?

[ChronicBeginner]

I'm guessing this has been discussed a billion times on here but I'll confess to being such a newbie that I can't even find the right words to use for a successful forum search on this...

So - I've purchased an entry level mandolin (Gretsch New Yorker) and am loving it. However, it does have a couple of spots where it buzzes. For the price, I'm amazed by the tone. (No one would mistake it for even a moderately-priced instrument but I like it as much or more then many instruments I played at 2-3 times the price.) Unlike a number of other instruments I played, including a few other New Yorkers, the intonation on this one was great right out of the box.

There are those couple of buzzes, though.

Here's are my questions:

1. Is a pro set-up useful on an instrument like this or at this price level will there be little to do to improve the playability and sound?

2. As a wide ballpark, what should I expect to pay for a set-up?

3. In the dobro world, where I come from, there are certain things one pretty much always replaces on budget instruments - new nut, better cone, etc. - and those changes can wildly improve the instrument. Anything(s) like that I should think about doing on this instrument?

Thanks! I appreciate you indulging my newbieness.

[colorado_al]

Welcome to the cafe!
Expect about $50 for a setup. Well worth it regardless of the instrument. The cheaper ones need it the most. I'd not spend much money on swapping out parts on a mandolin at that level, unless something is broken. Just get it setup as best you can with what it already has.

If you're handy, you can do it yourself with Rob Meldrum's setup instructions.
I'll find a link for you.

Edit: link to get Rob's ebook
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...=1#post1546582

Also, a recent post with some photos and info on setting up a mandolin from Mike Conner:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...etailed-Photos

Let us know if you have any questions and write back to let us know how it goes.

[ChronicBeginner]

Thanks, colorado_al. Greatly appreciated. (Unfortunately, "handy" isn't a term that's ever applied to me.)

[colorado_al]

Thanks, colorado_al. Greatly appreciated. (Unfortunately, "handy" isn't a term that's ever applied to me.)

Then I'd take it to a shop that can do a good job for you. I'm not talking about Guitar Center, but a real acoustic instrument shop near you. Also, there might be a cafe member in your area that has some experience that can help you out. If you tell us where you're from in your user profile, that would help out. Also might get you some recommendations on good locations in your area for a setup.
Best, Al

[Folkmusician.com]

I have to agree..

The unfortunate reality is that the lower priced instruments tend to need a lot of work. Some that goes past basic setup (such as fret leveling and refitting bridges). Your mandolin would likely benefit from the setup, but it is important that you find the right person to do the work. A setup by someone that doesn't know what they are doing, or who doesn't take the time needed, will not help much.

[Dan Voight]

Sadly, it's often the beginner mandolins that need the most work. It can range from $50 to a number that exceeds the value of the instrument. You won't know until you take it to a trusted luthier. Good luck.

[ChronicBeginner]

I'm in Nashville so there are certainly a number of good folks around. Though, being new to the mandolin world, I'll need to seek them out. Glad to hear suggestions, though!

As far as 'you-pretty-much-always-plan-to-replace-this-and-that' stuff, what's on that list? Or is that simply a judgement call by whoever does the set-up?

[colorado_al]

It sounds like you're a musician and are saying that it plays reasonably well already. I'm guessing if that is so, a setup will make a difference in sound (less buzzing) and playability. Looks like Dan Voight (post above) is in your location. Maybe he can assist you or point you to a shop that he trusts.

[Mandoplumb]

Have you played anybody's mandolin that seemed to play so much easier than yours. In a cheep mandolin the main problems IMHO with set up is intonation, which you say is fine, and playing rough, which is very dicouraging to the point that you don't enjoy playing it after the new wares off. If both of these things are good you got one on a million, and I wouldn't spend any money on it. Start saving that money for when MAS rears it's ugly head, which won't be long

[colorado_al]

I'm in Nashville so there are certainly a number of good folks around. Though, being new to the mandolin world, I'll need to seek them out. Glad to hear suggestions, though!

As far as 'you-pretty-much-always-plan-to-replace-this-and-that' stuff, what's on that list? Or is that simply a judgement call by whoever does the set-up?

Again, I wouldn't spend any money replacing parts on a mandolin of that range. Just wasting money that will not bring you much improvement.
Regarding your question, a bone nut is a good upgrade, Cumberland Acoustic ebony bridge is popular, cast Allen tailpiece. The best, and cheapest upgrade is a different set of strings. Who knows how long the strings have been on your mandolin and what they are? Also trying differnt strings are a great way to find different voices for your mandolin.

Anyhow, spend the $50 for a setup to get what you have into the best shape it can be, with what is on it. Then play it! If you like it, there is a nicer mandolin in your not too distant future. I figure if you keep playing this mandolin for a year, the $50 is pretty much nothing to spend to make it as enjoyable as it can be.

[dhergert]

While there are a number of mandolin setup details that are similar to guitar or other fretted instruments, the mandolin does have a number of unique aspects that should be understood by someone doing setup for you. As such, I'd really encourage you to take your mandolin to a setup person who is specifically experienced with mandolin setup.

Your profile points to Nashville as your locality; there are a number of well known stores in Nashville that do specialize in mandolin sales, repair and setup. (Many of these stores I dream of visiting one day. ) But you might want to be prepared for between $50 and $100 for setup if you're hearing fret buzzing.

...And, don't be surprised if your mandolin sounds remarkably better after the work is done. A good setup person can make an inexpensive mandolin sound quite good.

[Mandoplumb]

As far as 'you-pretty-much-always-plan-to-replace-this-and-that' stuff, what's on that list? Or is that simply a judgement call by whoever does the set-up?

Don't replace parts on that mandolin!! You will soon be replacing the mandolin, save money for that.

[JeffD]

Don't replace parts on that mandolin!! You will soon be replacing the mandolin, save money for that.

I was just going to say that. Its not worth it to start customizing it. Get it set up. That will make it much more fun to play. Then get on to the important part, playing the potatoes out of it - as is.

An entry level mandolin with a bunch of things replaced on it can be a lot of fun, but it rarely becomes more than an entry level mandolin with a bunch of things replaced on it.

At some point, rather quickly, you will find that you need a better mandolin, and you will get one that will make you happy for the rest of your life. You may well find on that mandolin that you want to tweek it with some custom parts, but in general there isn't a list of things that typically need to be replaced.

In my experience, and that of many I believe, it is our first, entry level mandolin that we ever have to upgrade from. Everything after that is more want to than have to.

After that your life starts to evolve in such a way that you have a mandolin shaped hole in your heart and you spend the rest of your days trying to fill it.

Welcome.

[ChronicBeginner]

Thanks, all. This is extremely helpful. No surprises, which is actually kinda nice in itself.

(Dan - I just saw that we're both in Nashville and, actually, I dimly recall that we're following each other on Instagram - or, at least, I'm following you.)

As for playing other instruments that played more easily and, certainly, sounded far better. Yes, I played quite a few but most were waaaaaay over my available budget. I've owned three inexpensive mandolins before and sold each when i didn't follow-through and learn to play. This time out I wanted go even further down-scale to see if I'd actually stick with it and, it seems, I've been fully bitten by the mando bug this time. So, the saving for a better instrument has already begun.

In the meantime, FWIW, as much as I'm guessing that the New Yorker is a bit of a chuckle even among a lot of beginning hobby players, for the price I've been really impressed. Like a lot of mass-produced instruments, I had to play a few before I found one that played and sounded right to me but, thankfully, this one was there to be found.

[Woodrow Wilson]

Personally, I think a proper set up on any instrument is the difference between someone that plays and an instrument that stays in the case for years at a time. I had a relatively cheap Washburn, and it did get used now and then as I had already developed finger muscles and calluses playing guitar and violin... but it was only after I played a friend's Kentucky 505 that had a proper set up that I had realized just how difficult I was making things for myself. Mine was mostly set up correctly, but the nut needed some serious filing down which I accomplished with welding needle files that you can pick up for under $5. It might be more worthwhile to learn to set it up yourself if you have any handy skills... so, another vote for Rob's ebook mentioned above if you feel comfortable doing so.

[dhergert]

... as much as I'm guessing that the New Yorker is a bit of a chuckle even among a lot of beginning hobby players, for the price I've been really impressed.

I was recently also surprised at how good an inexpensive mandolin, after being setup properly, could sound and could play... I think many of us are experiencing that after blind comparisons between our inexpensive mandolins and our more pricey mandolins. (For example: $199.00 solid F style mandolin.) It's got me thinking...

[CES]

If your set up guy can get the bridge adjusted well and keep the intonation spot on, I agree with not making any changes (except maybe a strap button if you're so inclined). That said, if the bridge just "ain't quite right," a replacement can make a huge difference. On my first mandolin (a Kentucky 675-S that was a bit of an eBay disaster) I replaced the rosewood bridge with an ebony Ste-Mac bridge (that was < 25 bucks...been 10 years, can't recall exactly), and it made a tremendous difference in the tone.

I use an Eastman 315 I bought on clearance as my current "beater," but its rosewood bridge is correctly set up and sounds good already, so I'm not planning on replacing it. I may eventually replace the tuners because they don't hold tune very well, but haven't rushed to do it.

Enjoy your new obsession! Plenty of great shops for you to choose from if Dan isn't available to help you out (met him once at Carter's a few years ago, and very much enjoyed the visit, FWIW).

[Br1ck]

If your mandolin tuners don't hold, it's much more likely a problem with your nut. Tuners are very rarely the problem. They can look and feel cheap, have all kinds of slop in them, but much more likely a nut slot issue.

[gtani7]

As far as 'you-pretty-much-always-plan-to-replace-this-and-that' stuff, what's on that list? Or is that simply a judgement call by whoever does the set-up?

I've owned a bunch of < $800 instruments and played more. The most serious things are that the bridge isn't fitted or needs to be replaced (especially the saddle flops around on the thumbwheel screws and leans over easily), frets need to be leveled/crowned/polished and htat the tuner post and bushing holes aren't drilled correctly on tapered pegheads.

Rough-fitting bridge feet isn't hard: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...a-bridge/page2
and: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ng-bridge-feet

but if intonation needs to be adjusted on the saddle, i take that to pros. Also fixing incorrectly reamed tuner holes, that's for pros (I'm waiting for that to be done). Level/crown frets, you should read Rob M's ebook and decide for yourself ( i think there's a big difference in working on vintage size frets vs .080/.043)

[Br1ck]

I too experienced the poor setup of a cheaper mandolin. The reality is more than likely, the cheaper the mandolin, the more work it will need. But there is no reason you can't play it for a long while after having the work done, at least, if you can refrain from playing better ones.

[Timbofood]

A good set up is never a bad idea! Learning how is fun but, I understand exactly the feeling of being "handy deprived"
I can do some things extremely well, some "acceptable" and, others leave me writing checks! I have found knowing when to step away extremely valuable!
Have the work done, play it for three years, get something that really snaps your cap, saving all through the three years.