Retopping an "el cheapo"

[Steve VandeWater]

This will probably sound pretty stupid, but keep in mind that I love to tinker with things and am often bored with spare time on my hands. With that in mind...
If I wanted to try improving a cheap mandolin (say a Savannah F style) would simply setting it up correctly and putting a carved top on it make it appreciably better? I want to try my hand at carving a top, but am not yet ready to take on making the neck, bending sides, creating a strong neck joint, etc. Since many solid topped instruments have laminate backs and sides anyway, do you think this could result in a decent sounding beater mandolin? Thanks for your feedback.

[Spruce]

If I wanted to try improving a cheap mandolin (say a Savannah F style) would simply setting it up correctly and putting a carved top on it make it appreciably better?

Theoretically, "yes"...
It would be a buttload of work, though, and in a lot of ways more difficult than just building an F5 from scratch...

[pops1]

You might be better off scraping off the finish and re-graduating the top from the outside and refinishing. Some have done that here and made a decent mandolin out of a, well

[Bill Snyder]

You would have to remove the neck to do that. That could mean removing the fretboard. You would need to make a mold to keep the sides from splaying out once the top is removed, and on and on. Lots of work.

[HonketyHank]

If your objective is to make a decent sounding beater because you want or need same, you will probably save money and certainly save a ton of effort and frustration by buying said beater after trying out a few. If, like me, you just have a strong sense of curiosity and don't really need the beater, then heck, go for it.

A. You scratch the itch.
B. You will learn a lot.
C. You may well succeed.
D. You will have fun.

[allenhopkins]

We will follow with step-by-step instructions for making a silk purse out of a sow's ear...

Were I motivated to improve a cheap mandolin, I'd start by stripping the (often too thick) top finish, then investigating bridge upgrading, perhaps ending with thinning the top by sanding from the outside. My expectations of improvement would be modest.

Assume you have a plywood instrument, so the likelihood of acoustically improving a laminated top significantly is not high. And it might make more sense to buy a mandolin kit, A-style, all solid woods, and utilize your spare time in putting that together. Would also provide an education in top carving, finishing etc.

[BradKlein]

First of all, we all owe a debt to Spruce (above) for linking to the EXACT quantity of work involved, between 108-126 imperial gallons!

Secondly, I suspect that you can find a more fun project than retopping a modern import. For example, scanning ebay for an interesting vintage instrument that needs major repair or retopping. Or building your own from a kit. Or doing your own build and getting help from a luthier on whatever is beyond your skills.

[fscotte]

I've retopped one instrument, but I also refinished it as well. I wouldn't consider it too difficult, but not easy either. You don't need to remove the neck.

I used a japanese saw and started by cutting just under the fingerboard extension, and cut back right up to the 15th fret crosspiece. That alleviated the pressure from the extenstion onto the top. Next, I just went to town on the top, making a huge hole in the center with a dremel. After the archy part of the top is removed, I used a belt sander and sanding block to carefully sand down to the rim, right where the kerfed lining is.

The binding can be removed before this but I found it easier to just sand it away with the top, and replace it with new binding. Just be advised, trying to remove binding can be really hard. It helps to use a heat gun to loosen up the glue a bit as you pull it awaynfrom the wood. You also have to make a new fretboard extender as well. Go for it. There's nothing wrong with trying.

[Steve VandeWater]

Thanks for the info guys. I understand the silk purse/sow's ear reference and know that's what I'm describing here. However, I've already done the stripping/sanding/regraduating/refinishing/nut/bridge/ etc. on a Rogue before with decent results as discussed here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...gue+conversion
I've since given that one to my son.
I was just wondering if carving a solid top (on a different but similar instrument) would make much of a difference in sound. I don't yet own this hypothetical instrument, but always see them for sale cheap.
My thoughts had run along the same lines that fscotte described. I was surprised to hear that I would have to remove the neck, which is something I don't really want to do.
Thanks again for the replies!

[Mark Gunter]

If your objective is to make a decent sounding beater because you want or need same, you will probably save money and certainly save a ton of effort and frustration by buying said beater after trying out a few. If, like me, you just have a strong sense of curiosity and don't really need the beater, then heck, go for it.

A. You scratch the itch.
B. You will learn a lot.
C. You may well succeed.
D. You will have fun.

E. You may well gain some tools and build some jigs that can be used down the road

All this can be said of building a kit, as well. Since you haven't purchased the proposed experimental mandolin yet, though, you might give Brad Klein's suggestion a lot of thought.

[JH Murray]

I would put your money into a kit. There are a variety of levels of finishing to choose from.

[buckhorn]

This last summer, within a matter of two weeks, I took on two retops.. and am not sorry.. neither one was not what you would call professional grade.. the first was a "Galviston" F5 and the second was a Fender A style.. and in between there was this broken peg head thing.. the cost of doing just one was probably more then the value of all three.. never had retoped, so what the hay, lets' try.. it was a great experience, and they both were something special to the owners.. I would like to think the sound was improved with both , and I would probably do it again.. Keith

[Spruce]

D. You will have fun.

I beg to differ...
I can't think of a luthiery project that would be more of a PITA than this one...
F5s, and mandolins in general, just don't like to be taken apart, and if the resulting mandolin is spectacular, so what?...

But, if you decide to do it, I'll donate the wood...

[jmkatcher]

It would be interesting to hear/play a Gilchrist retopped MSO (mandolin shaped object). But probably not the best use of his time.

[Spruce]

It would be interesting to hear/play a Gilchrist retopped MSO (mandolin shaped object). But probably not the best use of his time.

One of the best mandolins I've ever played was just such a beast...

[pops1]

I have had some very nice instruments that were laminated sides and backs, but with a solid top. If you want to do it the result should be much better that what you started with. Go for it.

[HoGo]

One of the best mandolins I've ever played was just such a beast...

Got any pics? What MSO? I think I heard he retopped some F4's with f hol top but that doesn't classify as MSO.

re. whether such project is worth the effort is relative... if the OP has the time and wants to experiment if he can carve better top than a chinese press can do I'd suggest go for it. He has no high expectations and only can win = learn something new and the joy is priceless...
But for experienced maker this would be frustrating job - investsing almost as much time as half of decent A style build takes and the result is still unpredictable (but I would expect much better than original if the top is carved properly).
I'm just rebuilding failed F9 and even with its financial value compared to our (local) hourly rate I think of it as not worth doing... Only because owner got it almost for free he can afford getting the work done and since he is friend I decided to do it otherwise I would rather concentrate on building my own mandolins.

[jim simpson]

It would be interesting to hear/play a Gilchrist retopped MSO (mandolin shaped object). But probably not the best use of his time.

Oddly enough, I have played such a beast. The owner had Gilchrist re-top an F5 of unknown origin. The owner supplied quite a bit of wood to Gilchrist and is probably the reason he agreed to do it. I had played the same owners Lloyd Loar which was not in my budget but the Gilchrist re-topped one was. I had the intention to buy it if it played and sounded good. I was disapointed in it's sound and passed on it. It looked great but that was all. I should have found a way to buy the Loar as it was a fraction of todays prices, lol!

[Jeremy N Lisa Dowlen]

Hey Man, go for it. I can promise this, you will learn a lot from just digging in and seeing what makes something tick. Its not wrong to explore. That's how innovation occurs. I will caution you about posting outside of the box ideas on this forum. From what I can tell there are a lot of arrogant, snarky trolls just looking to be haters. I took apart a cheap Tennessee long rifle that sold out of cabelas. That one leap of faith turned into several complete handmade flintlock rifles. I mean hand forged barrels, locks, and hardware, so there you go. I experienced a lot of hateraid because my band's nickname and that is MandoNazi but the thing is I am of Hebrew decent that's the joke. It doesn't bother me.

[colorado_al]

Here you go:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/105760#105760
If you can pickup that busted Eastman MD-515 for $100 (though seller is asking $300) it might be worth checking out.
Looks like the back would need to be fixed too. If you have more time than money, might make a good project.

[Timbofood]

E. You may well gain some tools and build some jigs that can be used down the road

All this can be said of building a kit, as well. Since you haven't purchased the proposed experimental mandolin yet, though, you might give Brad Klein's suggestion a lot of thought.

F- You might cut yourself but, not the same way twice(hopefully).
G- You might just learn a whole new application for some choice words in the lexicon!
H- You might just have a whale of a lot of fun.