Kenny Baker on mandolin

[maj34]

Can somebody help me out? I am convinced that I saw a photo here on the Cafe of the great Kenny Baker playing a mandolin, but I can't seem to find it. In my memory, he was wearing overalls, and he was sitting on his back porch. Can anyone share this photo?

[UsuallyPickin]

I don't recall a picture of Kenny Baker playing a mandolin. I do recall a picture of him playing a guitar. R/

[Timbofood]

I saw Kenny at a festival and I was looking at his "Buck Graves and Kenny Baker" albums, I asked which he was more pleased with?
He looked ALL corners of a compass and handed me a copy of "Bucktime" and said, in guarded tone:"I like this one."
I really miss him!

[drbluegrass]

He was a formidable guitar player. About as good on guitar as fiddle. Not sure about mandolin.

[DataNick]

It's said that he would frequently work up fiddle tunes/breaks on the mando first, then adapt to fiddle.

[Timbofood]

He liked to play "Fishers Hornpipe" in F. Sent guys pocket diving for capos at a festival one time with that, I laughed so hard I dropped a whole handful of mashed potatoes!

[mandocrucian]

I interviewed Kenny Baker way back in 1986 for The Mandocrucian's Digest (Issue #4, Jan 1987). He mentioned that he had recorded a mandolin album, but out of deference to Bill Monroe, not to put it out while Bill was still alive. Have absolutely no idea of whatever happened to this lost album, if it was ever put out, or if he ever tried to get a label to release it. Wonder if the master tapes still exist?

The mando-related excerpt....... (btw: Kenny was one of the tougher interviews I've done, because he had a tendency towards "Yep", "Nope" and "Uh huh" answers. Getting him to elaborate wasn't that easy. Tim O'Brien complimented me on that interview, cause he knew him!)
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Niles Hokkanen: You didn't get into fiddle until you were in your 20s. That's kind of late....

Kenny Baker: Well, you might say. Be me playing mandolin... I'd been associated with a lot of old time fiddle. I knew several numbers. I used to double on mandolin when I was in the military. I played guitar and the I would - you know, a 4-string electric mandolin is the automatic second lead to a Spanish guitar.

NH: So I guess that you were playing a Tiny Moore type lines?

KB: Sort of. (I know Tiny real well) Instrument-wise, I had a Gibson mandolin and a Gretsch guitar. The Navy gave me both; I've still got 'em I did several demos with than mandolin with Spade Cooley in '44, something like that. I wasn't exactly working with him; I just happened to be there and I knew a couple of the boys in his group. He asked me to sit in on a demo.

NH: Any of those ever make it onto any records?

KB: No, I don't think so. If any of those demos ever were recorded exactly what we laid down, I think they must have took my part out because I didn't notice it at any time.

Bob Wills offered me a job there, as a fiddle player. Now that was like '56 of '57. I was working with Monroe; we were working in California and he came out and caught a show.

NH: Were you tempted to take it?

KB: No. I didn't think I'd cut with him is why.

NH: I've heard that you have an unreleased mandolin album in the can. What's the detail on this?

KB: Absolutely right. Well, we did "Sweet Georgia Brown", I did a few of Bill's numbers but I didn't use the Monroe technique. Bill, he didn't like swing icks at all. And mostly what I played was a little more "uptown". As a deal...when I did this album,,,at that time I had no intentions of leaving Bill. And the deal I had with him, and I'm still holding to it, was that this album was not to be released until Bill's expiration. If I go before him, that's still the dea.

We had a boy by the name of Norvil Crouch playing guitar. And Freddy Harrington and Jerry Harrington. A boy named Buck Seymour playing tenor banjo mostly. There's no fiddle on there, no fiddle whatsoever.

NH: It wasn't a bluegrass lineup.

KB: That's right. We did "Darkness on the Delta" (Bobby Hicks and I did that on an album before.) We did "Shine". Ah me, I can't remember what else we had on it.

NH: Was your approach to mandolin much the same as your fiddling or were they two different instruments? And did you have any right hand problems with the pick?

KB: Reallly...I played just what I knew. If it was like my fiddle....? Me, I don't think it was. I've always had a good right hand; I didn't have any problems with the timing of my notes.

[maj34]

Thanks for the background on the Baker mandolin album. A buddy of mine jammed, recorded, and toured with Baker through the years. He told me pretty that Baker had recorded a mandolin album, but he didn't want to release it while Monroe was still alive. After many years, he thought the master was lost. It's great to have the interview details you shared above!

[Ivan Kelsall]

If it were possible to find out for whom Kenny Baker was recording at the time,they could be asked about it. Very possibly it could have been the same record label for whom Bill Monroe was recording. It would be a heck of a find if the master tapes are still around.
The way he seems to refer to it during the interview,points to it maybe being fairly recent at that time in 1987,
Ivan

[DataNick]

Thanks a bunch for sharing that Niles!

Absolutely a gem of info there!

...And my suspicions of some sort or awareness/cross-pollination between Monroe and Bob Wills was just confirmed.

[farmerjones]

That's a heartbreaker. As Kenny survived Bill, about 15 years, tells me the master has probably been lost somehow. But what if?

[UsuallyPickin]

Thank you Mr. H. , now maybe someone with some clout can start a search for the original masters. Lost isn't necessarily destroyed....... R/

[Timbofood]

I'm,with that Sentiment! Lost, is not necessarily destroyed, possibly misplaced. Far more positive thought! Let's cross our fingers!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'm currently in the middle of reading the Rosenberg / Wolfe book - ''The Music of Bill Monroe''. Throughout the pages i've already read,there's mention of Bill Monroe's recordings being shelved & sometimes ''lost'',for many years after they were recorded. I can't remember which they were,but 2 instrumentals on the LP ''Bluegrass Instrumentals'' were 'lost' until they were found by Ralph Rinzler who was BM's manager back then. So,it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Kenny Baker's mandolin recording master tape still exists ''somewhere'',
Ivan

[Russ Jordan]

I visited with Kenny a bit at Green Acres in NC sometime in the 90's (before Bill Monroe passed), where he was playing with Josh Graves. I remembered Niles' interview, asked him about the mandolin album, and wondered why he didn't let it be released now, since he was no longer with Monroe. "Nope, a deals a deal."

Someone suggested maybe it was recorded for Monroe's label and I think it highly unlikely to have been MCA. I wondered if maybe it was the old Puritan label. I sure wish it would be discovered somewhere and be released!

[Timbofood]

"A deal's a deal!" I always liked Kenny, now I have one more reason! Truly a man of honor! If more people were like that, the world would be a better place!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Ref. ''The Music of Bill Monroe'' - page 198 / para.3 - With ref. to banjo player Bob Black - Kenny Baker is reported to have issued 5 LP's on the 'County' label ( owned by Dave Freeman who now owns Rebel records) on which Bob Black played (out of a total of 12 albums for County) ''Baker's Dozen'' being just one. So,maybe the mandolin recording was done for that label as well ?. I can't see why KB would suddenly switch to another label purely for a mandolin album. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Records

Dave Freeman now runs Rebel Records,so maybe he could have some info. - would anybody care to ask ?,
Ivan

[Russ Jordan]

[QUOTE=Ivan Kelsall;1548709][B]Ref. I can't see why KB would suddenly switch to another label purely for a mandolin album. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Records

I suggested that it could be Puritan simply because that was the label of the original Baker/Graves album above where Kenny played mostly guitar (wonderful album, BTW). Since it sounds like much of the mandolin album was swing, I figured something other than County was likely. But who knows unless the masters are found.

[UsuallyPickin]

Sooo ... Puritan Sessions is one vault ... l County Sales is vault two through Dave Freeman to Rebel Records vault three....... Who else did Mr. Baker record with besides Mr. Bill who worked with MCA and ... ? Which other musicians and thereby companies and studios can we associate Mr. Baker with? Inquiring minds want to know .....
R/

[AlanN]

I suggested that it could be Puritan simply because that was the label of the original Baker/Graves album above where Kenny played mostly guitar (wonderful album, BTW). Since it sounds like much of the mandolin album was swing, I figured something other than County was likely. But who knows unless the masters are found.

I also remember the Niles interview. They included a transcription of Baker's tune Sushi. Is that recorded anywhere?

And Puritan was friendly to mandolin albums

[mandocrucian]

I also remember the Niles interview. They included a transcription of Baker's tune Sushi. Is that recorded anywhere?

FLYING SOUTH - Kenny Baker & Josh Graves (Ridgerunner RRR-0034)

The Gaudreau Mandolin Album - JG at his best!

[AlanN]

And Niles' book of JAG solos includes some from this record, such as Eight More Miles To Louisville (with that neat dim lick at end...yes sir)

[farmerjones]

They included a transcription of Baker's tune Sushi. Is that recorded anywhere?

The only place I've found this tune is on his instructional CD. He does run through it completely. Also again with close-ups of his left and right hands, respectively.