So I read threads in the Forum and people talk about an instrument being "set up" or not "set up."
What does than mean!? When my new mandola arrives, how will I know? What should I do???
Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.
Set up?
So I read threads in the Forum and people talk about an instrument being "set up" or not "set up."
What does than mean!? When my new mandola arrives, how will I know? What should I do???
Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.
Re: Set up?
Adjusting the intonation, the action height at 12th fret and levelling the frets if required.. That's most of it. Sometimes it involves adjusting the truss rod, the bridge position and height, the nut.. It doesn't mean that your instrument should require any of all that. Just check the height of the strings above 12th fret, should not be more than 2 mm. Then check intonation at 12th fret first and all over the fret board. If this checks out, you'll probably won't need a set up.
Re: Set up?
"Set up" as used here refers to the initial adjustments needed to make the instrument easily playable. Some of the major components include:
1. Adjustment of bridge location, so that the mandolin intonates properly at all frets. Mandolin bridges are "floating," held on by string tension, so they can be located closer to the neck, or to the tailpiece. The note fretted at the 12th fret should be an exact octave higher than the unfretted note on each string.
2. Adjustment of bridge height, to make the string height above the fretboard ("action") comfortable.
3. Possible adjustment of the fit of bridge feet to the top, insuring full contact. This may involve shaping the feet with sandpaper.
4. Inspection and possible modification of the string slots in the nut, to avoid binding and to insure proper action.
5. Inspection of neck "relief" -- the slight concave curvature of the neck needed for proper action and string clearance. Adjustment of the threaded truss rod if more or less relief is needed.
6. Checking out the tuners for proper working, with lubrication if needed.
7. In many cases, replacement of "factory" strings with better ones.
8. General overall inspection and testing of the instrument; checking for flaws, shipping damage, manufacturer's defects, etc.
Some sellers do "shop adjustment" before shipping instruments, and these instruments generally arrive well set up and not needing further work. Other sellers basically take instruments as they come from the factory, repackage them and ship them to consumers. These may or may not arrive with acceptable set-ups, and should be checked out by a pro before playing them. Mandolinists can learn to do their own set-ups; Cafe member "robster" (Rob Meldrum) makes a free e-book available if you PM him.
Banjos and mandolins, unlike guitars, require at least a set-up check, since they have unfixed bridges which may or may not be properly located and height-adjusted (for mandolins; banjos require different bridges for different heights). Some mandolins have non-adjustable bridges, with a fixed height, but even these need to have bridge location checked.
It's not a complicated or forbidding as it seems. Most of the (dozen or more) mandolins I've purchased have arrived with acceptable set-ups, and I can do simple bridge height and location adjustment myself, despite being a non-tinkerer by nature. It's worth having a new instrument at least checked out, to avoid initial problems.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
Re: Set up?
It's really just a bunch of minor adjustments to an instrument to make it as playable as possible. Enabling you to get the most out of an instrument, even ones of modest value.Originally Posted by john e
Forum user Rob Meldrum offers a free PDF guide to setting up new mandolins which is invaluable: send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he'll send you a download link.
Re: Set up?
Though I've been doing this adequately for a few years by now -- and haven't had instruments that needed very much of it -- I still have a few questions about set up.
1. When placing the bridge (if needed) I usually measure from the nut to the middle of the 12th fret, then set the bridge the same distance tailwards from this location. This usually seems to work, but should I rather be checking the intonation and adjusting on that basis?
2. The mandolins always seem to be a little sharp at the 12th fret compared to the 1st fret; I assumed this was unavoidable due to the equal temperament issue and how the fretboard is calculated. In fact, I've often read advice that players who play way up the neck most of the time would be better served tuning on the basis of the 12th fret at the expense of the 1st fret being a bit flat. This seems to reinforce the idea that you can't get perfect intonation all the way up and down. Correct or wrong?
3. When adjusting the action, should I alternate between measuring the nut slots and the saddle/bridge height, or start with one or the other first then work on the other end? Given that the bridge height is easier to adjust than the nut slots, do I start w/the bridge all the way down before seeing if the nut slots need to be deepened, or some other position? (This assumes an adjustable bridge of course.)
4. Should I worry much about the saddle slots? I've rarely had an issue on this end, unless I buy an unslotted saddle (big pain!)
Re: Set up?
For me it's the intonation and the action. They are related. If you go down with action you'll have to move the bridge further towards the tail piece. Once you have good intonation all over the fret board you don't need much.
Re: Set up?
Not to forget about the nut. Correct string height at the nut is crucial and often way out of specs when no setup was done to a factory mandolin.
Re: Set up?
Several others have mentioned it, but it bears repeating: contact Rob Meldrum (Robster) on this forum using the private message function. His mandolin setup ebook will explain everything you need to know and guide you through doing your own setup, or at least understanding what you should ask for if you choose to have a professional do the setup. His book should be required reading for any new mandolin player.
A bit of background is important here. Instruments need a setup because they do not ship from the factory in an optimal playing condition. Some smaller reputable builders will do a decent generic setup on their instruments, but the big mass production companies don't. They just put it together and ship it off, based on rough specifications for the action. Going back a century or more in history, this was the way things were done by the manufacturers because they always used music shop dealer networks to sell their instruments. The dealer would sell the instrument and make money on the markup, but was also able to provide customer service and additional money from the personalized setup procedure. An instrument was not considered completely finished and ready to play until it had undergone the final setup by the dealer. The buyers of these instruments would tell the dealers how high they wanted the action and how they wanted it to play, so it could be tailored to the buyer's desires at the end point. There's no way the factory could know how each and every player would want it set up. So it made sense to have the dealer do it as part of the sale to the end user.
Well, when we entered the age of big box stores and the internet, more and more companies started wholesaling their instruments to big companies who were not real music shops. The old model of providing dealer service and a setup kind of got lost in the mix. But the factories still ship their instruments with no setup at all, and many instruments will be virtually unplayable in that condition. The action will be extremely high, nut slots will not be cut properly, the instrument will not intonate well, and it will generally play and sound terribly. I think this may be why so many new players end up quitting. They bought cheap instruments online or from a wholesaler, and ended up with what should be a decent instrument, but it just doesn't play well. They never heard of getting a setup, and they are led to believe that the terribleness of it all is just because it's too hard to play a mandolin.
I'm not usually one to cry "there ought to be a law!", but in this case, I think consumer protection laws should apply. Instrument manufacturers should have to put a tag on their instruments that briefly describe what a setup is, and encourage buyers to have one done. At least then they would know about it. But none of the makers are going to want to put a tag on their instruments which admits that the playability sucks.
Re: Set up?
Thanks, all. This is most helpful!
Re: Set up?
Invaluable guide.
Re: Set up?
Depending upon where you got your mandola it may come already set up. Instruments bought off e-bay usually are not and they need a good bit of work to get them comfortable and to their best performance. Buying from a real shop (like the sponsors on this site), they come set up. In fact, when you place your order with many places you can specify if you want a lower, middle, or higher action (string height).
Jamie
PS. Think of a set up as periodic maintenance on your mandola, as well. It's not just a once and done.
There are two things to aim at in life: first, to get what you want; and, after that, to enjoy it. Only the wisest of mankind achieve the second. Logan Pearsall Smith, 1865 - 1946
+ Give Blood, Save a Life +
Re: Set up?
A case in point is the recent Michael Kelly discontinued model sell off. I can just about be certain a beginner getting an instrument like that in the factory sealed box would not want to play it. Everything that could be done needed doing. The bridge contacted the body for only about 50% of it's surface. The frets needed pretty significant leveling, the nut needed the slots deepened, and the truss rod needed adjusting. The bridge saddle had sharp edges that dug into your palm, as did the nut.
I bought this great deal knowing that going in, but woe be the people that don't. So what was a horrible playing mandolin is now pretty nice. Nice enough that some days my other mando never gets out. The fact I like the tinkering, I spent another couple of hours on it yesterday thinning the Florida, was just for me a bonus.
I have played a Kentucky KM 150 at both an all purpose music store and a specialty shop (Gryphon), and the difference is dramatic.
Get your instrument checked out and start off ahead of the game.
Silverangel A
Arches F style kit
1913 Gibson A-1
Re: Set up?
Though I've been doing this adequately for a few years by now -- and haven't had instruments that needed very much of it -- I still have a few questions about set up.
1. When placing the bridge (if needed) I usually measure from the nut to the middle of the 12th fret, then set the bridge the same distance tailwards from this location. This usually seems to work, but should I rather be checking the intonation and adjusting on that basis?
2. The mandolins always seem to be a little sharp at the 12th fret compared to the 1st fret; I assumed this was unavoidable due to the equal temperament issue and how the fretboard is calculated. In fact, I've often read advice that players who play way up the neck most of the time would be better served tuning on the basis of the 12th fret at the expense of the 1st fret being a bit flat. This seems to reinforce the idea that you can't get perfect intonation all the way up and down. Correct or wrong?
3. When adjusting the action, should I alternate between measuring the nut slots and the saddle/bridge height, or start with one or the other first then work on the other end? Given that the bridge height is easier to adjust than the nut slots, do I start w/the bridge all the way down before seeing if the nut slots need to be deepened, or some other position? (This assumes an adjustable bridge of course.)
4. Should I worry much about the saddle slots? I've rarely had an issue on this end, unless I buy an unslotted saddle (big pain!)
Petrus,
(1) You should worry about intonation. Measuring is not enough for a variety of reasons -- slight errors in scale, slight errors in string action (changing action changes intonation), slight errors in the bridge saddle. After the action is where you want it, tune the two outside strings to an exact pitch. Then, fret at the twelfth fret. Should be exactly the same note. If not move the bridge the appropriate way to make it exact. The bridge may not move the same on each side.
(2) You can get pretty darn close intonation all the way up the neck. Some builders actually make the first fret a little close to accomplish this.
(3) Start with the nut slots
(4) You should worry about saddle slots.
All of this is covered very well in the setup book by Meldrum book mentioned above which is free and well worth a read.
Bill
IM(NS)HO
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