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Thread: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

  1. #1
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    Default Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I just wonder how most people handle repertoire. How big is it, how do you keep track of it?

    I do notice that some players talk about improvising rather than playing repertoire. I do understand this. I was a classical guitarist, took a 30 year hiatus from music, and the thing I most remembered was that repertoire was kind of a stone around my neck.

    When I started back on music I began with keyboards (midi, with headphones, being kind to my spouse) and was fairly careful to only improvise. I didn't want a repertoire to have to handle.

    But I missed strings. Tried to pick up the fiddle, failed (among other things, my neck at this age is far too stiff, and presbyopia means I can't see the fret board) and went to the mandolin initially because the left hand is similar to the fiddle.

    And, immediately, I began to collect repertoire. It now is 50 or 60 songs, which I keep on index cards and work my way thru continually. I play by ear (forgot how to read music during that 30 year hiatus) and anyway even with sheet music (back in the classical guitar days) you have to continually review your repertoire if you want to be able to play it.

    Just for honesty, I'll tell you that I am a terrible mandolin player and I play only in private. And don't plan to ever become public about it.

    But I wonder how other people handle the repertoire issue?

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    Registered User minuteman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I can't read sheet music so I have a binder full of songs I've converted over to tablature with Musescore. Never counted but a 1.5" binder is getting hard to undo the rings without the pages popping out. It starts with easier mazurkas and progressively gets harder and ends with selections from Calace, Munier and Gioviale. I play every morning over coffee and it takes a few days to work through and then I start over. New songs get stuck in the back to tinker with until I decide to add them and where.

    I too only play for myself, or the wife and I'm no expert player. Never had a lesson or formal training. I just love the instrument and the music. I once watched a banjo player that was missing 3 fingers and decided there was no "proper" way to do anything.

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I have file cabinets of sheet music, and LOTS of stuff digitized and on a large pad for live use.

    Frankly, between what I play by ear or memory AND and the charts, I sort of can't keep as good track over all my repertoire as I would wish.

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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I don't read music and play mostly be ear. I have hundreds of tunes in my head. Kind of a muscle memory, you start it I can play it. There are many many tunes, and a fair amount of songs. I play in several different groups and jams so I think doing it often helps.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I have a three ring binder filled with set lists from various gigging opportunities.

    I have a six foot shelf or more of three ring binders and notebooks of tunes for jamming.

    I never sat down to figure out how many tunes I "know" (there is an ongoing discussion on what it means to know a tune), but the number is in the high three figures. At any given fiddle tune jam, old time or traditional Irish or contra-dance I have participated in, at festivals or while traveling for work, I generally know at least a third of the tunes being played. At jams around where I live I know well over half, and at my home jam there are few tunes I don't know.

    Howcome? Well several reasons - one is that I have a genetic inheritance that favors remembering sequences, numbers, notes, patterns, etc. Another is that from the beginning I went after fiddle tunes like a crazy person, and even now I will go to some extreme effort to learn the tunes of a jam session I intend to frequent. And third, I have been doing this for a while.

    Here is a funny - I can flawlessly recite a ton of old phone numbers of people or institutions once important to me, but I cannot always recall who's number it was. In the same way there are a ton of tunes I can play but have to be reminded what the name of the tune is. The bridge between the tunes and the names of the tunes is in need of repair, and in some cases just plain washed out.
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I have a pretty large repertoire of fiddle tunes and a bookcase full of tunebooks, but years ago I started writing out my repertoire in ABC format and currently have at least a thousand or so ABC files stored on my computer. If I ever need to have the sheet music of a particular setting I can paste it into a converter and print it out, but I can also play straight from the ABCs.
    I don't have any problem memorizing lots of tunes, but there comes a point after so many tunes and so many years that I tend to forget titles and can't start some tunes unless I hear the beginning of the tune, so I'll sometimes write out the ABCs of the first couple measures on my gig playlist.
    Last edited by WW52; Dec-03-2016 at 3:39pm.

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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    To me, repertoire is not strictly numerical and the need for it depends on your capabilities, what kind of music you play and in what environment you want to play. One thing at a time:
    • Not strictly numerical: If I say I have a repertoire of 100 tunes, that can mean I can play all 100 solo perfectly from memory, or that I could work in with a group playing those tunes or that I could work any of those 100 up to performance level with a short practice. So decide what you mean by repertoire.
    • Capabilities: People who can sight read, or play really well by ear don't need to remember as much as those who can't. If you can sight read, just about any sheet music is in your repertoire. If you are really good playing by ear, any tune you can sing or hum is 50-80% into your repertoire. So how much do you rely on memory?
    • Type of music: If you play old-time, bluegrass, rock or blues, you just have to remember a lot of tunes. If you play classical, you have to be able to read music. What constitutes "your repertoire" in that context?
    • Environment: If you are going to jams, you want to be able to have a repertoire that roughly matches what is going to be played at those jams. If you are performing, you have to know your sets. If you are playing by yourself at home, it is completely up to you. So what do you want to do with your repertoire?

    So I used to play old-time and had a repertoire of about 125 tunes that were played at jams I would go to. I was also in a contra-dace band and a subset of that list wound up on our set lists. Also, I had a few tunes that I only played at home for my own enjoyment. I kept track of them on a spreadsheet and I would try to put dates on each one as to the last time I played it. If a tune got a couple of months out of date, I would practice it on my own and get it "refreshed" in my repertoire.

    Now I have gone back to my roots and only play church music. My old-time repertoire has gone down to almost nothing, but I don't care. I have been playing church music for 38 years. I have no idea what my repertoire is and I don't keep track of it, but it is probably at least 500 tunes. Some of them I can play cold even after not having done them in a year or more, some I might need a quick refresher on.

    So like a lot of things: It's all relative.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I have a trick memory for lyrics and melodies (I can still sing advertising jingles from 60 years ago -- stop me if you don't want to hear "Get Wildroot Cream Oil, Charlie"). So I have a "repertoire" in my head of several hundred songs, not organized and not always universally accessible. I have a file drawer of paper copies of music, chord charts and lyrics of songs and tunes, and a bookshelf of Reprints From Sing Out! and other sources -- Sandburg's American Songbag, the Burl Ives Song Book, Norm Cohen's Long Steel Rail book of railroad songs -- you name it.

    But now there's YouTube, and the last few dozen times I've been working up new material, that's where I've gone to hear songs. I can pick up by ear lyrics, melodies and chord changes, and I usually listen to a line, pause the video, keyboard the lyrics, then listen to the next line. The act of putting the words on paper tends to fix them in my head, and there's the printed lyric sheet for reference while I learn the song.

    Don't think there needs to be a hard line drawn between "repertoire" and "improvisation," though. If by improvisation, you mean making up music totally out of whole cloth, with no reference to any pre-existing music, that's one thing. But the way you play a particular piece of music, whether you composed it or adapted it from another's performance and/or arrangement, is yours. Even if you try to copy note-by-note, your performance will be different, in larger or smaller ways.

    My feeling is that except for the truly original among us, most of us will at times be playing music we did not totally compose or improvise ourselves. Heck, if you play Happy Birthday to You for Grandma, it still won't sound just like any other's performance -- though it would take a reckless person indeed to claim authorship.

    Whether you want to consciously learn a repertoire of music, organize and access it however you please, and perform it for your private, or others' public, enjoyment (?), is of course a personal decision. I like playing out, and the audiences for whom I perform want to hear some familiar numbers (plus, I don't write originals), so I keep playing (and learning) music from other sources.
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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    My partner and I play acoustic folk and we have a repertoire of probably 80 songs we can play at any given time. I keep the lyrics in alpha order in a 3-ring binder because neither of us can remember that many lyrics. We will select songs for a gig but always are willing to play a request.

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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    Great question. This aspect being something I also struggled with (and also formerly a classical guitarist - with a lot of Bach, etc).

    These days (with the vast majority of my rep being acquired by 'ear'), every few months or so I try to collect the titles to all the tunes I've most recently learned. I have lists for each instrument. And every few months or so I try to go through lists trying to recall (play) through the tunes on lists - often having to look something up off albums, cds, or whatever source from where i learned it. Youtube is THE musician's boon; many times, I've been in utter panic about not being able to find a cd - A real challenge is when a genre or style is new, and therefore rhythms, syncopation, nuance not yet engrained..

    I've lost a lot of stuff I used to play. Unfortunately, really. All my stuff (since CG days) is memory/ear-learned - except horns, I guess.

    *but perhaps more to the point of the question borne by the thread title, I fully empathize with the desire to not have to deal with repertoire - and just improvise everything. This may be why i did most of my group performing on bass and drums. Solo performing however (on other instruments of course) - hard to get away from a rep-based set. Shifting gears a bit: Something I've found - I'm generally not comfortable enough to perform (publicly) on an instrument until I can comfortably improvise for about 20 or 30 minutes - as my ability to recall rep seems increasingly less apt (or perhaps rather it's that my desire to improvise is increasing ..)
    Last edited by catmandu2; Dec-03-2016 at 5:43pm.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    At the risk of filibuster, let me add that one reason I love learning others' music, is that I also love learning about others' music. The history of each song, its composer, subject, reason for popularity, historical context, is almost as fascinating as the song itself.

    Songwriters often introduce their songs by telling us why, when and where they wrote them. I think that's an integral part of the songs, and of the performance.

    Doing a bunch of historical and thematic programs, as I do, provides a structure around which to build repertoire. Not just "songs I like," but songs that have a role and an importance, that are the building blocks of an approach to music -- putting the music in context, making it illustrative as well as entertaining.

    Devoted some thought to this over 40+ years of performing. Not the way everyone should approach it, but a perspective I've found useful.
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    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    Classically trained, still pretty good at sight reading. Majority of the tunes I know I learned by ear. I have an Excel spreadsheet with most of the tunes I know (from memory, tune, chords and lyrics) it's up to about 300 now. Songs are arranged alphabetically with columns for author, genre, tempo, key, other notes. I have several binders arranged by genre (Gypsy Jazz, Klezmer, jazz standards, wedding songs, etc.).

    I also keep track of the songs I play at various venues. When putting together a set list I go through the spreadsheet, my list of what I've played there before, and knowledge of the venue/event and print out a list of songs to perform (I plan on 20 songs per hour). I don't play from any paper or digital device when I perform, just have the set list as a guide.

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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    For me, I guess, repertoire is how long I can play without repeating anything. Our band has a one-hour set list and another setlist for longer gigs and sessions can run from two to four hours. How many tunes in all that time? I've never counted. I know I can sing when needed for an hour or two (I don't use a radio while driving but I will sing, especially if I'm alone) without repeating myself.

    Of course, I've always been good at memorizing stuff that interests me. I know a couple dozen poems/sonnets/soliloquys, including a few in German, I'm a quick study when learning a script for acting and I can sight read music fairly well. I too know phone numbers from my childhood and the occasional cartoon theme song or advertising jingle. I also can repeat tons of lines from movies I've watched. fwiw
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by RodCH View Post
    ...

    And, immediately, I began to collect repertoire. It now is 50 or 60 songs, which I keep on index cards and work my way thru continually. I play by ear (forgot how to read music during that 30 year hiatus) and anyway even with sheet music (back in the classical guitar days) you have to continually review your repertoire if you want to be able to play it.

    Just for honesty, I'll tell you that I am a terrible mandolin player and I play only in private. And don't plan to ever become public about it.
    ...
    Are your 50-60 tunes focused on a particular type of music? 50-60 is a decent amount fiddle tunes or bluegrass to play through. Perhaps narrowing down to a dozen or less that are similar and really working them can help you clean things up. I think perhaps you are a bit too hard on yourself, you can't be that terrible if you know 50+ songs!

    Overall, I think building a repertoire is a good thing, as it will give you the syntax of the music you are playing. A phrase from one tune is used in another, or phrases are similar, built on the same chord, arpeggio.
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I have to disagree with Gary Leonard, although he seems like a very nice guy. If you play 50+ songs and all of them sound terrible, then you are still not a very good mandolin player. I am lacking in some fundamental skills (especially tremolo and chords). I started out with all single-note runs and then began to add some double-stops after a few months. A few months after that, I began to occasionally replace those with triple stops (which I guess means chords).

    Honestly I don't know a dang thing about the Mandolin. Don't know what notes I am playing. Don't know what key I am in. Thank heaven for the organized fret board. It allows me to recognize shapes all over the board that I know will go together. On a guitar, this approach wouldn't work at all.

    Gary's advice about focusing in is very good though. My repertoire is all over the place musically. But I remember now that I used to actually keep two stacks of cards. One was "repertoire that I am working on every day" and one was "repertoire that I get to much less often" and I would move cards between the stacks fairly often, so that every tune got a moment in the sun every month or two.

    I also agree with those who say that all playing is improvisation at least to a degree. My tunes tend to change over time. A double stop appears there, I notice that an open string can be added there, occasionally I find a triple stop.

    When I was improvising on keyboards, the thing that I really noticed (besides my complete inability to play keyboards) is that it pretty much didn't matter what notes you played, as long as you (1) stayed on key and (2) kept in rhythm, and even those two rules weren't cast in stone.

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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    Maybe try electric guitar - lots of effects can open up routes to creativity, as well as contour an evocative sound. Electric mandolin maybe?
    Last edited by catmandu2; Dec-04-2016 at 1:08am.

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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I don't understand the OPs question, if you learn to play something it becomes part of your repertoire, how can this be a good or bad thing ?

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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    Dave,

    Your memory is probably much better than mine. I would certainly hope so. Just because I played something at one point, even perfectly, from memory, does not mean that three months later I will have any idea at all how to play it. I have to keep going over it every week or so so I don't forget. This was true even when I was half sight-reading CG and always had the sheet music in front of me. And that was in my 20s.

    So repertoire represents not "songs I have played at least once" but "songs I would be able to play right now, if asked". Not that anybody with any sense would ask.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I have been playing mandolin for over 4 decades. I guess the main question that I pose to the OP is what do you call repertoire. As far as I can determine the official definition would be the whole body of items that are regularly performed. However the OP says he doesn't play in public, at least for mandolin. So his repertoire is whatever he plays or is working on.

    In any case, I have been resurrecting some of the fiddle tunes I used to play way back when I started. In OT music there are "cool" tunes that the hip players play in sessions these days. Then there are those tunes that the old codgers like me try to remember that no one plays any more but still have some cache IMHO.

    I also have flirted with other genres over time: classical (a fair amount), Italian, choro, Swedish even a Norwegian tune or two and possibly some Balkan, Scottish, Cape Breton and Irish tunes. Like much in my life tho I am not truly organized so it is in my head or on some crinkled lists at the bottom of my mandolin or fiddle cases.

    As far as a method of dealing with this, I suppose index cards are fine or, if you want to get digital and 21st century, then a database of some sort. OTOH there are a few sites I use to remind me about tunes or music. Youtube is an amazing resource and there is The Session, The Fiddler's Companion, Slippery-Hill.com and probably a few others. Plus, like JeffD I have multiple shelves of sheet music and books.
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    I guess one could have a discussion about what does it mean specifically for a tune to be "in your repertoire". Just like the ongoing discussion about what it means to "know" a tune.

    Fodder for a separate, but not uninteresting thread.

    Many years ago I embarked on a grand project to organize all my repertoire, all the tunes I can reliably play at a jam without excessive prompting, into a database. Being a nerd, the project had a certain fascination for me.

    Well I organized a killer database (well for the day anyway) and a format for entering tune information.

    The project became a second job. OMG. I was spending valuable time on data entry, severely cutting into my playing time. It became ridiculous. I even considered hiring someone to do the data entry for me. I was way down that slippery slope.

    I dropped the whole effort. The internet has tons of great databases of tunes and tune lists, only a google away, and there is nothing to be gained in knowing which ones are "mine" and to what extent.

    I still write out on manuscript paper when I learn a new tune. It helps me remember the tune and it is fun. But I have a stack about three inches or more high of single sheets I have written out that I need to someday organize and three hole punch and file.

    My interest is in playing music with people, not office work. When I have the resources to hire a secretary for my life, music will be a large part of the assignment.
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    For me they're only really repertoire if they are being performed. I have my trio, Irish duo, mandolin orchestra, fiddle orchestra, old time duo, harp&mandolin and stringband repertoires which are continually changing with each season. Only the Irish, OldTime & stringband rep gets committed to memory properly. The rest get studied in detail & analysed, but I make no effort to commit them to my performing memory, even though they mostly do stick anyway but only as tunes I could hum, not with all the nuances which I need to refresh when practicing for a concert. I also have a lot of solo pieces I do know, but I never feel motivated to perform as a soloist so don't count them.
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    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    The classical guitarist (OP mentioned that's his background) - in the classical tradition - practices and rehearses a repertoire, presumably for performance although not everyone gets/seeks the same performing opportunities obviously. I recall carrying my folio everywhere - to practice and performances - in which was contained everything I performed, except for any wholely memorized pieces - mostly flamenco solos, standards, etc. (This is also what me and my kids do with our band material)

    These days I do it differently, although still solo - my performance repertoire are tunes and material from a "set bag" of stuff committed to memory, as I don't take any scored music anymore. I may conceive of any improvising I do as functionally part of my repertoire. So, my performed repertoire can change at the gig - depending on which tunes I elect to play, how much improvising I do, etc.
    Last edited by catmandu2; Dec-04-2016 at 4:20pm.

  25. #23

    Default Re: Repertoire - good thing or bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I guess one could have a discussion about what does it mean specifically for a tune to be "in your repertoire". Just like the ongoing discussion about what it means to "know" a tune.

    Fodder for a separate, but not uninteresting thread.
    You have a point Jeff. If I claim a song is in my 'repertoire', that means I know it. To me, that means I've played it and practiced it enough times that it will come back to me without much effort. This is what my dear old mother used to refer to as "knowing a song by heart". I can't really see a downside to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Many years ago I embarked on a grand project to organize all my repertoire, all the tunes I can reliably play at a jam without excessive prompting, into a database. Being a nerd, the project had a certain fascination for me.

    Well I organized a killer database (well for the day anyway) and a format for entering tune information.

    The project became a second job. OMG.
    I tried to do the same thing. It didn't take long to figure out that this 'list' of song titles was pretty much useless to me. What I need is someone to tell me the first few words or lines of the song or to hum a few bars. ...Then I'm off to the races!

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