Sierra Hull IBMA

[Chanmandolin]

I've had this thought running around my head and wanted to see what some others thought.

No doubt Sierra is one of the best mandolinist on planet earth and she earned her IBMA Mandolin player of the year award.

I grew up a huge Chris Thile fan and I've always thought he wasn't included much at IBMA for the genre of music he plays . (1 mandolin player of year award I believe.)

In my opinion Sierra doesn't play too much bluegrass any more during her live shows..., pretty similar to Thile yeah?

If you nominate Sierra don't you have at least nominate Thile??
Why is Chris left out and Sierra included?

[guitarua]

Well I think IBMA is out of touch with the actual music scene:

Sierra Hull - 2016
Adam Steffey - 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
Jesse Brock - 2009, 2015
Chris Thile - 2001
Ronnie McCoury - 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000
Sam Bush - 1990, 1991, 1992, 2007

6 Players in 26 years.....doesn't seem to me like there are only 6 BG mandolin players around...

[Beanzy]

Maybe with both Hull & Thile they wanted to catch them before they flew the coop so fans would realise they came from there.
As you indicate they are finding new broader pastures so no harm in tagging them as they go out the gate.

[JAK]

Nepotism is okay, as long as you keep it in the family.

[Don Grieser]

Mike Compton didn't win during the "O Brother" year. IBMA awards have no relevance to anything as far as I can tell. I heard Ronnie McCoury walked off stage and gave his to Bill Monroe the first year he won it. Duh.

[Ivan Kelsall]

In my opinion,if any player of any Bluegrass instrument chooses NOT to play Bluegrass as their main music genre,as per Sierra Hull & Chris Thile,they shouldn't even be included in a vote on 'Bluegrass' musicians. By all means give them some 'other' award,but not one based on the premise that they play Bluegrass music,even if they once did - they're out of it now.

Such awards should be for those musicians who play 'Bluegrass' music only. I'd even exclude 2 of my favourite bands,'The Infamous Stringdusters' & 'Greensky Bluegrass' (despite the name). Give them an award under the name ''Newgrass'' if you like, to distinguish between the two associated 'genres'. Awards for Bluegrass music should go to Bluegrass musicians,
Ivan

[mcgroup53]

Kind of hard to see how Sierra wins when Sam Bush and Doyle Lawson (and for that matter Bobby Osborne and Jesse McReynolds) have never won. Buit it is nice to see IBMA grudgingly enter the 21st Century. Like seeing Becky Buller win fiddle and vocals this year. As for Chris, he'd be the first person to tell you he doesn't play bluegrass and shouldn't be on the ballot

[Chanmandolin]

I do agree, but I'll say I'm a huge dusters fan and greensky. The dusters should still make the case for ibma. As well for steep canyon rangers. The steeps never get included it seems

[Chanmandolin]

Agreed. I believe Sam has won a few times tho. And I'm ok with Thile not being on the ballot...for the same reason I think Sierra shouldn't be on the ballot

[Ky Slim]

I was curious how the selection and awarding process works. I have no opinion on who should win this or why... Congrats to Sierra!!

Awards Criteria

"These awards are to honor people who are known as, and have achieved fame as, bluegrass music performers."

"Instrumental Performers of the Year

These awards are for artists who, on recorded and/or in-person performance during the specified time period, have shown an extraordinary mastery of their instruments. Nominations and awards will be made in six (6) subcategories: banjo, bass, fiddle, Dobro, guitar and mandolin. The awards recognize the artist."

[Scott Tichenor]

We've been observers of the awards for years. Tip: its always been this way and it's not going to change so you might as well get used to it. The membership of IBMA is incredibly small (the quoted number used to be well under 2K when they were having their board member melt-down a few years ago), a mere fraction of the California Bluegrass Association that is multiples larger in size. Not everyone votes. Sure, they draw huge crowds at the Raleigh event, but most of those attendees aren't members.

No one that has received an award should be criticized for winning, that's not the point. But it doesn't go unnoticed that some winners have left bluegrass, aren't looking back and have moved into other genres, most famously, Bela Fleck, who by his own admission when giving the keynote a few years ago said he mused out loud while walking to receive the award that he hadn't touched a bluegrass song in years. Some of the most noticeable performers in it for life have never received a nomination and stand little chance of ever doing so. You can point your finger at the membership for that one, but it's futile to take issue with a crowd. We're not bluegrass flame-keepers so doesn't bother us. Is what it is. It's a good career perk to have the title by your name and surely helps some folks get jobs so for that reason it's good. But any kind of awards recognition is going to make a lot of people unhappy.

But I suppose all of this depends upon the definition of "bluegrass." Clearly, to the IBMA membership at large, bestowing the awards moved beyond what most people call the music of Bill Monroe a very long time ago.

EDIT: I am a HUGE fan of Sierra, Adam and others that have won the mandolin award.

[3rdegree]

Reminds me of a fellow player who said "As soon as you enter a instrument contest, you've lost."

Congrats to Sierra, a masterful mandolin player. I would imagine that much like the Oscars and other awards there is a great deal of politics, promotion and campaigning. I would imagine (like any smart business person would do) that the release of her new album this year included a lot more publicity and PR than her previous efforts.

She knows she is not a little kid anymore who gained notariety as the "cute little girl" playing onstage with the big boys and understands it really isn't just about simply being a great player or composer. There are so many other things that go into being a successful pro. Hence "Weighted Mind"?

I think while she has always been inspired and influenced by the bluegrass greats both musically and business wise, she has seen enough of the constant touring and festival life to realize that's about all there is with that. She has seen Chris Thile start as she did and forge a new path out of bluegrass while still being true to it's roots. Could she be following his path albeit a few years behind? Let's face it, her new project is very reminiscent of Chris and Edgar Meyer's Bass and Mando album and tour. Even the songs are similar to Thile's later albums. Much more intricate, "grown up", dark and thought provoking than anything she's done before.

I for one am a big fan and while I applaud her win and current efforts I think it won't be long before she's charting new territory rather than swimming in someone else's wake.

[Chanmandolin]

I would like to say that my intentions with this post was not at all to criticize Sierra. I think she is one of the best to ever touch a mandolin. And I fully believe she deserves all the reconigtion and credit she gets.

My issue(or not even a issue just a thought) was with the selection process more than anything.

[Chanmandolin]

To the point of my original post, I was just intrested to see what people thought of the selection of nominees really. Not at all to knock Sierra

[mcgroup53]

Nope, Sam Bush has never won IBMA.

[Phil Goodson]

Nope, Sam Bush has never won IBMA.

That's not what the IBMA webpage says here. Scroll down to 'Mandolin'.

[Drew Egerton]

There are certainly a few names that come to mind when thinking about bluegrass mandolin that are not on the winners list. Maybe most notably for me: Alan Bibey, Wayne Benson, Ricky Skaggs.

I can't find a list of the past SPBGMA winners for some reason, but a lot of times those awards seem to me to be more on point, at least with my tastes.

[Phil Goodson]

There are certainly a few names that come to mind when thinking about bluegrass mandolin that are not on the winners list. Maybe most notably for me: Alan Bibey, Wayne Benson, Ricky Skaggs.

I can't find a list of the past SPBGMA winners for some reason, but a lot of times those awards seem to me to be more on point, at least with my tastes.

From their website, SPBGMA "Hall of Greats" includes mandolin players Rhonda Vincent, Roland White, Jimmy Gaudreau, Curly Seckler, John Duffey, Doyle Lawson, Bobby Osborne, Jesse McReynolds, Bill Monroe, and I may have missed some others.

I agree with your partial list of good candidates above.

[Ivan Kelsall]

To address Scott's point - "No one that has received an award should be criticized for winning,...". I hope that never happens, & i can't imagine that any Cafe member would be so mean minded as to do it !. ALL the winners have been excellent musicians worthy of the accolade - but - the question regarding whether they're inside or outside Bluegrass still applies (IMHO).

I feel that as worthy as Sierra is,she's sidelined Bluegrass music & as such shouldn't have been included in the vote,especially as there are many other mandolin excellent players still 'inside Bluegrass' who weren't included.

As i mentioned in my first post in this thread,by all means give them an award,but one that's ''appropriate'' to the music that they play - i'd be 1000% behind that. The same goes for the 2 ''Bluegrass associated'' bands that i mentioned the 'Stringdusters' & 'Greensky' ( Chanmandolin - they're 2 of my favourite bands as well). Give them an award under the 'Newgrass'' banner. I've listened to almost every song that Greensky have put out (that's available), & much of their stuff is as 'non-Bluegrass'' as Punch Bros. music (to my way of thinking). I firmly believe that bands such as the 'Dusters & 'Greensky' should have a band award category of their own. Maybe mandolin players such as Sierra Hull & Chris Thile could be slotted into that ?. Some careful thought needs to be applied IMO,
Ivan

[Steve Sorensen]

I've always felt that players who win the award two or three times should take themselves out of the running. Always felt kind of unseemly to see the same pickers up there again and again.

Steve

[Patrick Hull]

Pretty clearly the IBMA thinks Sierra is sufficiently "bluegrass." She co-hosted the show and also had a song, Weighted Mind," nominated. I guess we can argue about whether it has to have been in Bill's repertoire to be bluegrass. But I guess I would analogize to virtually any other area of endeavor. Would we say the "Opera singer of the year" could never sing anything else? Does she get disqualified if she occasionally sings hymns at church? Does the best baseball player cease to be the best baseball player because he also plays golf? If you are the best at something aren't you the best even if you only do it 10% of the time? If she is the best at playing mandolin on bluegrass songs, she's the best, and if she wants to play in a polka band half the time she is still the best. Am I missing something? Patrick Hull (no relation, unfortunately.)

[Willie Poole]

I have to agree with Ivan and a few others that say a person should be totally a bluegrass musician to win any award at a bluegrass association awards show, why have the word "Bluegrass" in the title if you don`t adhere to that form of music, now a lot of people even those at IBMA don`t know the real definition of the word "Bluegrass"...I see it all of the time with bands being called bluegrass and then playing something close to rock and roll or jazz and some other forms of music...Why isn`t there just an award for "Mandolin players" at some award shows and then Miss Hull and Mr.Thile would have a trophy to put on their mantle, surely they are both great mandolin players but not bluegrass as a whole, yes they can and have played it but have wandered way off now days...

Willie

[Ivan Kelsall]

Patrick - I take your point,but somehow,i don't think that the IBMA think too deeply about it. IMO,Sierra was a sort of 'obvious choice' in that she is a superb musician. I also think that her newly released CD had quite a bit to do with it. It at least maybe brought her to the attention of the IBMA panel of judges more than some other players ??.

To address your other points re. Opera singers / Baseball players etc. - They get the 'best' awards because opera & baseball form the vast majority of their 'work' ,the 'other things' are ''add-ons''. These days it would seem that Bluegrass music isn't even an ''add-on'' for Sierra Hull,or others who seem to have sidelined Bluegrass music.
In this case ''being the best at something'',should be ''being the best Bluegrass mandolin player'',not simply the best mandolin player regardless. It is an award for ''Bluegrass musicians'' after all,so let the award land where it's supposed to - with a Bluegrass musician,not a ''once was'' Bluegrass musician - purely my personal opinion,
Ivan

[red7flag]

I am a past a long term IBMA member. Having been part of this process for a long time, I wish to applaud the process not necessarily the results. The process is set up to reflect the membership of IBMA not music as a whole. Now you can argue that the process should include all bluegrass fans, but you get into a huge problem if you do. What qualification do you use. We receive letters (this maybe electronically done now, been a while) asking membership to nominate artists, songs and CDs for all the categories for the award show. Here is the process as delineated by the IBMA website:

THE ELECTION WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED IN THREE STAGES AS FOLLOWS:
FIRST BALLOT: Each current Professional Member of IBMA may make as many as five entries per category* and subcategory on the ballot, delivered electronically via email. See the Eligibility List for reference.

SECOND BALLOT: All eligible entries receiving ten or more votes on the first ballot will become candidates for awards and shall be placed on the second ballot. *(Song of the Year, Recorded Event, Gospel Recorded Performance and Instrumental Recorded Performance candidates will be all songs or tunes receiving ten nominations or more, or the top ten vote getters, whichever number is greater.) Each professional member may vote for no more nor less than five candidates in any category in which they choose to vote. The Second Ballot will be delivered electronically via email.

FINAL BALLOT: The top five vote getting candidates in each category of the second ballot stage will become final nominees. Each professional member of IBMA may vote for their number one choice in any category on this final ballot. The Final Ballot will be delivered electronically via email.

I think you can see the process is laborious, yet fair. Iit only represents the membership of IBMA. So you can fault the membership for their votes, but not the process. At least in my opinion.

[Bill Foss]

I'm more of a fan of the trad bluegrass mandolin players such as Compton and McCoury but I'm real happy a Sierra broke a glass ceiling by being the first woman.