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Thread: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

  1. #151
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    I've got a question for those participating in this thread and for former/current Loar owners in particular. I was having back channel discussions off-Cafe with a former Loar owner who educated me on the phenomena that the real-deal Loars have an "it" factor in tone, volume, and playability. It is recognizable only by those whose palette sensibilities to such things has been tuned. The main characteristic attributed as responsible for the instrument having this quality is its age (>90 years). It is said that a person like Dawg, can pick up a Loar and within minutes of playing the instrument can tell you if the Loar has "it" or not.

    So here's my 2 part question:

    A. Did Monroe's Loar at 23 years of age in 1946, or one of Apollon's Loars of 10-15 years of age in the late 1930s have the "it" factor? Those whose palettes are so attuned can judge/measure this by the recordings made with those instruments.

    B. If the answer to question A is yes, then does it not stand to reason that today's luthiers (Gilchrist, Dude, Nugget, Gibson, Monteleone, etc) having produced instruments that are 10 to 23 years old and older should also have the "it" factor?

    It is said that Steve Gilchrist is building mandolins currently on his approximations of what a brand new Loar era mandolin would have played and sounded like; so apparently there is a belief in the possibilities of this to be true!
    A. Yes IMO, in the case of Mon (who purchased his Loar in January '45). Not sure about Apollon, AFAIK he kept using any newer F5 Gibson would give him and might not have been so fanatic about the Loar sound.

    B. Yes IMO, there are certainly some with the "it" factor. But both, Monteleone and Gilchrist never strove for the Loar sound, except for their earliest efforts. Especially Gilchrist saw a market for mandolins with plenty of volume and a strong bass response. Since 2003 (Mike Compton's #536) Steve, as he told me personally, has put more effort in getting that Monroe sound, which is still typical loarish, but at the same time standing out from all others. Monroe's Loar was very special, Wakefield's, Loar #70281 and perhaps a few others may get close. I'd say some of Gilchrist's later models should have "it", if we refer to Mon's F5.
    I'm quite sure Gibson's workers with Loar breathing down their necks occasionally couldn't do magic. Both age and playing time play a role.

    Now how about John Reischman's Loar, which sounds quite unlike Monroe's or Apollon's? Does it have "it"? Most mando lovers sure think so.

    Nick, you certainly got the bug. I suggests that you drive around and try as many mandos/Loars as possible. If you can't hear and feel a difference, you won't need to dream about Loars anymore and be happy ever after.

    Cheers,
    Hendrik Ahrend

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  3. #152
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Well-said. I would add in David M.'s (Johnson Mountain Boys) to the 'it' mix, also Dewey Farmer's '26 fern.

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  5. #153

    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Excuse my ignorance on the topic, but had Monroe played other Loars prior to buying his? Or did he just try that one and say, "Wow!" ?

  6. #154
    Registered User Gary Hedrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    In the years 2001 thru 2010 I hosted a number of picking sessions at my house. 5 jams going on at once....invited folks to bring their mandolins to be played by all those in attendance.....75 to 100 folks....no kids....no alcohol.....30 to 50 mandolins available to play....Loars, Ferns, Gilchrists, Dudes, Kimbles, Monteleones, Nuggets, Red Diamonds, many F4's, Snakeheads, Woodleys, New Master Models, Taggerts, and so on.....if you brought the mandolin and laid it out to be seen it was fair game for someone to grab it and go play in a jam session.

    Interesting result of this was that not everyone thought that a Loar was the end all and be all of mandolins....many liked a Dude or a Gil or an F4 etc. This was the main idea of my having these.....get a chance to play one in a "band" setting and see what you think. So while I hold a Loar in very high esteem not all are created equal and many of today's instruments are really really good.

    So I agree with what has been said in the above recent posts........BUT darn an old Loar sure is neat!!!

    ps. there were a number of really great pickers at these....Butch Robbins, Brian Aldridge, Mike Cleveland, Donnie Anderson, David McCarthy and so on. So folks that knew how to play well and also a number of beginners too....F5L's, Kentucky's and other brands. David Harvey came and brought the full line of instruments at the time so folks got to play a Skaggs distressed and all the others too. My former Loar was there and from across the room one could not tell which was the Skaggs and which was the January 12th, 23.....both from a sound and a looks standpoint. Put a good instrument in the hands of a Master like David and it they all are magical.
    Last edited by Gary Hedrick; Feb-16-2017 at 11:07am. Reason: Additional info

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  8. #155
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Thanks Guys!

    I don't have a bug to buy a Loar, but I am curious about the experience, and when people who have played my 94' F5L jump up and exclaim it's one of the best mandolins they've ever played including 4-5 Loars, when Adam Steffey while playing mine just smiles shaking his head and mutters Gibson!...well that makes me feel good about what I've got...but I'd love to A/B Loars with mine, Gils, etc.

    Gary's pickin parties sound like Nirvana!...LOL!
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  10. #156
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Excuse my ignorance on the topic, but had Monroe played other Loars prior to buying his? Or did he just try that one and say, "Wow!" ?
    Don't know if he ever had played one before Jeff. He did own/play an F7 from the Monroe Brother days (mid 30s) until he got his Loar.
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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  12. #157
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    Well-said. I would add in David M.'s (Johnson Mountain Boys) to the 'it' mix, also Dewey Farmer's '26 fern.
    I believe each Loar has the "it" thing, even the unsigned and ferns! each one is different and depending on what voice one likes, I'd be happy with any one of em, I've even played some 30's F-5's that had a great voice to em, Its all on what one would like. It also is IN the musician on how well they can make em sound. The only Loar I've gotten to spend serious time with is my uncle Gene Johnsons, His is the first known of the Feb,18th 24's #75305. Now that thing to me has such a refined tone/voice that it is different than a lot of the Loars heard. You can listen to his work with David Bromberg Quartet live in NYC cd and hear for yourself, I'm sure its on youtube.
    I agree some may be better than others but each has something, some just need played more than sitting around in a vault or shop for many years, and well we've all seen the same ones sitting around, If ya have the $ make an offer and let em sing, even the cheapest Loar out there may surprise you with a songbook pumped through it! My opinion

  13. #158
    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    ...when Adam Steffey while playing mine just smiles shaking his head and mutters Gibson!...
    Yeah, I do that all the time...

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    I believe each Loar has the "it" thing...
    I dunno...
    I've played a handful that sadly did absolutely nothing for me....
    I know that setup had something to do with one of them, as it sounded great 5 years earlier...
    YMMV...
    Last edited by Spruce; Feb-16-2017 at 1:44pm.

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  15. #159
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    From "The Lure Of The Loar ad In Classifieds" thread in 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoist View Post
    The "lure of the Loar" will never "run its course" ...even in these economic times. The market being in the $200k ballpark, imo, is less than what these rare instruments should actually be valued at. But it is what it is. Anyway, the market price on these babies have been what you consider "excessive" for decades and it's still a solid investment. Better than buying gold by a long shot. Ten years from now, when they're closing-in on $400k - $500k I may wish I held on to Joe Val's #72207...

    I'm not dissing Kevin, however it appears now that the reverse is true at 8 years in and closing in on prices closer to $100K...YMMV
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
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  17. #160
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing.... and predicting the future can be, well, difficult.... we are all supposed to be flying around in our personal (nuclear powered, no less) flying saucer things by now... according to those who predicted this back in the 1950's..
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
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  19. #161
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Real value is the same as it's always been:
    As much as the buyer is willing to pay!
    Anything else is "hopeful"
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  21. #162
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Gold price goes up and down, but it never loses its value. Loars are the gold standard. We've all seen pieces of antique furniture that sell for ridiculous prices. Well first, A Loar is very much like one of those fine pieces of furniture. But far more useful.

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  23. #163
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    I dunno...
    I've played a handful that sadly did absolutely nothing for me....
    I know that setup had something to do with one of them, as it sounded great 5 years earlier...
    YMMV...[/QUOTE]

    See the one you played sounded great years before, setup is everything. I still say each one has something.

  24. #164
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    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    At one of the Loarfests in Louisville, a guy had one which had fallen into disrepair and severe neglect. It sounded terrible. Gilchrist was there and just did a little R&R on it, it was miraculous how it responded. I agree with bluegrasser78. They all have the basis for greatness, some just need some TLC and care. And there will also always be the detractors....

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  26. #165

    Default Re: So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    At one of the Loarfests in Louisville, a guy had one which had fallen into disrepair and severe neglect. It sounded terrible. Gilchrist was there and just did a little R&R on it, it was miraculous how it responded. I agree with bluegrasser78. They all have the basis for greatness, some just need some TLC and care. And there will also always be the detractors....
    Cool story! Great sports analogy -- "is there a doctor in the house?" I guess all hobbies have their superstars -- and a signed Loar is about as good as it gets for the mandolin hobby. Or maybe, historically, a Loar would be Babe Ruth, Monteleone maybe Reggie Jackson, Gilchrist let's say Nolan Ryan, Dude would be Maddux, etc.............just thinkin'........

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