So what is the "real" value of a Loar in today's world?

[shylock3]

A quick internet search shows 16 Loars for sale between just 5 well-known dealers. I'm sure there are more on the market outside of those. A good many of the ones for sale have been listed for a considerable time. It's hard to say what the current market price would be. But logic would dictate, that the actual transaction numbers would be quite a bit below the listed asking prices.

I probably bought the Skaggs Loar your referring to, not sure exactly when I bought it but I paid 32k for it. It's listed in the Journal with a crack under the pickguard. It's there but hardly noticible. My last purchase was a Loar from a well known picker for 125, nice mandolin with no issues. That was within the last 2 months. The value is what your willing to pay and what the seller is willing to take. I guess I could have donated the money to the outgoing political party, to help them get back on their feet. HUM

[barry]

I probably bought the Skaggs Loar your referring to, not sure exactly when I bought it but I paid 32k for it. It's listed in the Journal with a crack under the pickguard. It's there but hardly noticible. My last purchase was a Loar from a well known picker for 125, nice mandolin with no issues. That was within the last 2 months. The value is what your willing to pay and what the seller is willing to take. I guess I could have donated the money to the outgoing political party, to help them get back on their feet. HUM

Great info. I would say that answers the question. The current "mark to market" pricing for a nice, no-issues Loar, is currently around 125,000.
Thank you.

[JFDilmando]

I know of three that have sold in the last two years for 140-170 k

[barry]

Sounds reasonable. The prices of vintage Martin guitars has pulled back over the last couple of years too.

[woodwizard]

The question is how long does one want to hold position of a gold mine. It's a stock market thing "up & down". Not knowing

[Jeff Mando]

Real value, as a player, is priceless.....something you can enjoy every time you pick it up.

As an "investment", not so much. It has peaked and even fallen quite a bit. The people who "made money" on a Loar inherited it from great grandpa or bought in the 60's or 70's and hung onto it for 40+ years -- you'll make money. Those who bought it at $175K and up -- you'll probably take a hit if you want to unload it. OTOH, bought for the "right" price, not a bad place to park your money, IMHO, and fun, too.

[barry]

The original poster's question was what the true, current-day transaction prices are for Loar mandolins. Shylock3 had a very honest and accurate answer. Within the last 2 months, a "no-issues" instrument changed hands for 125,000.
That's the most recent transaction price I have seen. Obviously, the more transactions, the more accurate and efficient the market price would be. However, these are rare collectibles with a thin market.

[mandroid]

if your mandolin that cost more than my house, makes you enough money,
to buy 2 houses, then it may be worth it..

[Rich Michaud]

I want to put my toe in the water here. First, hello to Gary who knows me from prior mando transactions. I understand the high costs of the Loars, that there is a wide variety in condition and sound, and s Barry said, the market is thin. My firm belief is that the high end market is declining or at best stagnant. It takes a lot of desire and financial resources to pay six-figure money for these items that come with sale tax requirements, annual insurance costs, and potential repairs and risk of damage and loss. In contrast, many investments will currently yield a 3-5% return without the headaches. That being said, I am dead serious about being in the market to buy one in good condition with a sound/tone that I like. I am aware of the Loars on the market by dealers mostly priced at 165,000 to $175,000 and will likely end up buying from a dealer that I have in mind. However, if anyone out there knows of a Loar owner who wishes to avoid a consignment fee to a dealer and would like to part with a Loar to a serious buyer, please let me know.
Rich Michaud

[AlanN]

The people who "made money" on a Loar inherited it from great grandpa or bought in the 60's or 70's and hung onto it for 40+ years

Untrue statement, or at least incomplete, to imply that these folks are the only ones who have seen a profit on a sale. There have been many buyers/sellers in the last 15-20 years who have scored a windfall. I wish people would know a bit more of what they speak before posting.

[JAK]

Just like other brands of mandos, there are Gibson Loars and there are Gibson Loars, with a variety of sight and sound. Wonder what John Reischman's Loar would go for today if he decided to sell it (which I don't think he will, but you never know, what with unknown factors and random events occurring all the time)???

[Don Grieser]

There's 5 for sale at Carter's and another 5 at Gruhn's. Plus a Loar mandola at Carter's. Draw your own conclusions.

[DataNick]

Gruhn's is listing this VG+ 1924 Gibson F5 Loar for $135K...that $120K price that the guy mentioned earlier in the thread no doubt is spot on.



$100K in cash, if it's possible to accumulate that much in one sitting, would probably walk you out the door with it.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

That one has been around for a while, at Retrofret, at Carter and now at Gruhn's. Not sure what the story is. Maybe the Virzi - in this case - affects the sound negatively, or it just doesn't sound good enough for most potential Loar buyers.

[JFDilmando]

well, as far as current pricing, I have heard of one selling very recently for about 170, and I have one that someone could probably pry out of my hands for around that price... but really ? Why not just keep enjoying playing them. So from a "seller's" standpoint, the going value would be right around the 160-180 range from my perspective... which is pretty spot on with where the "dealers" are trying to hold the line currently. Actually, I think that the "average" Loar might come down a bit more, as the one or the other that I think I would part with are top of the line Loars, and have been thought of as that by some of the top dogs... of course, everyone who has a Loar probably thinks its a top of the line Loar !!!

[Jeff Mando]

There's 5 for sale at Carter's and another 5 at Gruhn's. Plus a Loar mandola at Carter's. Draw your own conclusions.

Sounds like if someone was ready to buy, you'd never have another chance to find 10 for sale at the same time, let alone in the same town. Sure would be a fun afternoon comparing them. But, yes, seems like a buyer's market to me.

[Jim Garber]

That one has been around for a while, at Retrofret, at Carter and now at Gruhn's. Not sure what the story is. Maybe the Virzi - in this case - affects the sound negatively, or it just doesn't sound good enough for most potential Loar buyers.

I liked that one a lot when it was at RetroFret. I would guess that the micro-market for Loar F-5 buyers may be pretty saturated unless someone wins a MacArthur grant.

[Darryl Wolfe]

This entire subject is just part of shifting priorities, the influence of the internet, and many other factors.

At one point great Loars were bringing $225K and $250k. But this was the same period of time that my house was worth $100K more than it is now.

Back in the day, Loar sales were by word of mouth, letters and phone calls that start out with..."I understand you might have a Loar you are thinking about selling". Those of us that bought then are sitting pretty good regardless of where the price settles at.

For many, many years, the price of a Loar mimicked the price of a decent new car or a very nice used one. Do that math now and see what the "real" value of a Loar is. The math on car to house value at that time was about 8-10x car vs. house and a house was accepted to be about a years annual pay. The annual pay thing now is more like 3-4 years, but the car to house ratio remains the same.

With that said, Loars became about 2x over this formula in the mid to late '90's and about 4x over the formula at their price peak.

This biggest problem is that baby boomers and the following generation finally had enough money to buy one..which blew the roof off the prices. Our newer generations are enamored in the modern mandolins, which they should be. There was not the current quality of mandolins available then. And the folks like me that grew up on Bill Monroe are past our buying prime.

The market is shifting and adjusting as it always has

The real price for a Loar now is "what you can get", not necessarily a function of what you paid for it.

But, the internet has expanded the Lore of the Loar along with making all the one for sale instantly visible. So I think the do command a premium over the old formula, just like a Herringbone, Les Paul and such do. But I think we are seeing problems with those prices too in the same manner

[Darryl Wolfe]

Fact check for my post

1972 Loar $2000.......1972 Ford Maverick $2000....entry level new home $20,000 (when neither my Dad or I could afford a Loar
1976 Loar $5000.......1976 Olds Cutlass supreme $5500.....nice new home $55,000 (when I bought my first Loar
1982 Loar $8000........1982 Honda Accord $9000...............new homes, around $85,000 (when I bought a Loar)

2008 Loar $225,000...... 2008 Decent new car $15,000-Loaded $40,000...............new entry level home $150,000

Today Loar ? ........ 2017 decent new car $25,000 Loaded nice car $40,000-80,000 ..............new entry level home $160-230,000

Note..all home prices are in similar southern areas with similar cost of livings

Another data point is the price of a high quality new F style mandolin from a custom builder. On the earlier entries that number is about 1/4 to 1/3 the price of a Loar

Todays's price is about $20,000ish for a Gil or Dude...Ha!!!! Bingo

[Jeff Mando]

This biggest problem is that baby boomers and the following generation finally had enough money to buy one..which blew the roof off the prices.

Great analysis, Darryl. I agree and it is complicated. If the economy, in general, hadn't tanked in 2008 it would have been interesting to see where prices might have gone. I think I was at the exact vintage guitar show in Arlington, Texas when buyers stopped buying -- where before money had flowed like water, so to speak. It was scary to witness. I know quite a few dealers and collectors who bought in when prices were high and now own several holy grail instruments that are now worth $50K less than they paid. Makes sense, of course, but I grew up thinking vintage instruments were a recession proof investment and for 30+ years they were. Kinda sad.

I guess another way to look at it is to say an instrument that once brought $250K can be bought today for $175K, which should be some comfort to a buyer. Still sounds like a lot to the average guy like me.

[Darryl Wolfe]

. I know quite a few dealers and collectors who bought in when prices were high and now own several holy grail instruments that are now worth $50K less than they paid. Makes sense, of course, but I grew up thinking vintage instruments were a recession proof investment and for 30+ years they were. Kinda sad.

I guess another way to look at it is to say an instrument that once brought $250K can be bought today for $175K, which should be some comfort to a buyer. Still sounds like a lot to the average guy like me.

Agree...I think these are some of the Loars for sale....and I never thought I would see instruments decline. I hold several instruments that I overpaid for. Luckily for me they are in the $3000-$6000 range and traded into

[Willie Poole]

I know there are some reasons for people wanting to own a vintage instrument but as for me if I find a mandolin that has a sound that I like and plays comfortable that's what I want and buy...I do not speculate on an instrument going up in value because I don`t know what makes that happen....I see some guitars made in 1971 that bring a high price in one city and a guitar of the same make and year in another city goes for a lot less, that I don`t understand either...I am not a collector so I guess that's why I don`t understand all of this about the value of a 1924 Gibson mandolin selling for such a high price...Thanks Mr. Monroe....

Willie

[Darryl Wolfe]

Let me add one other set of facts that mesh with my posts....

My Parents were not rich, and I have never been real well off so to speak. I attained upper middle class status and after I left home, I started out middle class and reached well into the upper range of middle class by the age of 40 or so. I was buying cars, raising a family and paying all the usual mortgages and such I am 64 years old

Now, during my entire relationship with this Loar mandolin thing, a middle class person who was not strapped in debt could swing a Loar if he put his mind to it. It was akin to buying a new car that you did not need, and parking it in a garage. If you rally wanted the Loar, and were willing to sacrifice a few things for a while it was fully attainable

In both cases where I bought a Loar in my early years, I sold off a non-daily driver car or some other asset, or took out a loan on a paid for car to come up with the majority of the money, but doable. Very doable then adding in things like selling 2-3 other instruments and such. It was a strain and a sacrifice, but doable with some effort

After about 1996, with Loars at $40,000...this became a pipe dream for me and most others in my "class", and has only become worse since

So, in essence, one has had to have some serious disposable income to buy a Loar since 1996

[DataNick]

...For many, many years, the price of a Loar mimicked the price of a decent new car or a very nice used one. Do that math now and see what the "real" value of a Loar is. The math on car to house value at that time was about 8-10x car vs. house and a house was accepted to be about a years annual pay. The annual pay thing now is more like 3-4 years, but the car to house ratio remains the same....

Thanks Darryl!

Being a Data Analyst I can't resist an attempt at a forecast projection..by the above formula and what I would call a "decent" new car, I'd say right around $30K or what most listings of vintage 1930s F5 Gibsons seem to be at.

[Gary Hedrick]

Well there you are......my life's story via Darryl....