Purchasing through the Cafe

[sblock]

It's interesting that contentious posts are made by members who use a Nom-de-plume but who will buy/sell using their real name so they can in fact post contrary to their actions, and there's no verification.

I call foul! You've made a truly absurd -- and utterly false! -- insinuation. There is no evidence that members are in any way "hiding" by their use of usernames on the MC. In fact, most of the longtime members around here (who joined long before you did), with thousands of posts going back many years, have Mandolin Cafe usernames/nicknames. These are honorable people and they are not hiding; the use of such handles is commonplace on the internet. Just look back through this thread and see how many people have usernames. There is no evidence whatsoever that they are either buying or selling mandolins in our Classifieds in any ways that are contrary to the sentiments that they post on the Cafe. That's a thoroughly scurrilous accusation for you to make, in fact, and one that is not backed up by any evidence. You are, in essence, accusing folks here on the Cafe of hypocrisy, but failing to provide justification. That is offensive. I challenge you either to back up your outlandish claim with some facts, or to please apologize and retract it. We don't need this kind of trolling around here, and you should be ashamed of yourself for making snarky, unsubstantiated comments like that.

[Nick Gellie]

I can say I have bought and sold mandolins on the cafe from half way around the world and with one exception I have had very good dealings with members of the cafe. I can't write in a 48-h approval period because of the distance involved. I make sure that the buyers knows as much about the mandolin as is possible, sending high resolution images of various parts of the mandolin, sound clips, etc. By being as honest as possible about the mandolin really helps a transaction.

[Eddie Sheehy]

That's the one exception to the Approval period. The cost of repatriating an instrument makes a return very expensive internationally. As Nick says, you have to make sure it's what you want. I have shipped a lot internationally and never had a Return, and I have a very considerate Return policy. Perhaps too considerate, since I've had 4 returns recently - 2 subsequently sold. Still, I believe it's the Return Policy that helps sway a buyer. They have to know that they are not stuck with something they don't like.
The downside for me is that I get hit with the PayPal fee on the Shipping cost I don't refund, and even though it is little, it all adds up to a Cost for my Catch and Release Hobby.

[Jeff Mando]

In defense of sellers.......my two cents. I should state while I've never sold on the Cafe, I've been buying and selling vintage instruments for 35+ years -- long before the internet made it an "easy" thing to do. I've been on eBay since the beginning with over 3700 feedbacks -- all positive. Here's what I think: I've been playing since 1966 and if I say it's a good guitar, mandolin, or whatever -- I think 99.9 percent of buyers will agree. Actually, not just agree, most will be THRILLED to own it and say it is even better than described. I NEVER over-describe anything. You want condition, playability, etc. to be a pleasant surprise. And, YES, I want the customer to be happy. Makes sense.

50 years ago, I took my first course in salesmanship. One of the basic points the instructor made was NEVER, under any circumstances, sell something on its guarantee. I REPEAT, never sell something on its guarantee. Why? Because it begs the question, "what is wrong with it?" And if the answer is nothing -- why mention the guarantee? Focus on the other merits of the instrument. I grant you maybe I'm too "old school" and times have changed with the Walmart generation of returning anything for any reason. THAT, I strongly disagree with.

In actual practice, one instrument in a 1000 sold gets returned, usually due to nothing more than the customer being too fussy (or his wife saying he can't have it -- which, of course, you will never hear!) I can chalk that up as the cost of doing business and sell it to another (hopefully) more reasonable person. Most customers are great. A very few will abuse a return policy.

[Eddie Sheehy]

The most common real reasons for returns:

It doesn't float my boat.
It hasn't got a WOW factor.
It isn't a banjo-killer.
It doesn't play like butter.
I can't really afford it.
Buyer's Remorse.
It's not what I expected tone wise/ color/ feel/ neck shape...

That's why I accept returns for ANY reason... The real reason is they are just not happy with it.

[dph3430]

Thanks for all the great input. I do realize that i made an error in titling my string. It should have been "purchasing through the Cafe classifieds" as I know the transaction doesn't pass through the Cafe. Again, thanks for all the comments and I now think I will be very comfortable buying an instrument on here.

[Nick Gellie]

In defense of sellers.......my two cents. I should state while I've never sold on the Cafe, I've been buying and selling vintage instruments for 35+ years -- long before the internet made it an "easy" thing to do. I've been on eBay since the beginning with over 3700 feedbacks -- all positive. Here's what I think: I've been playing since 1966 and if I say it's a good guitar, mandolin, or whatever -- I think 99.9 percent of buyers will agree. Actual, not just agree, most will be THRILLED to own it and say it is even better than described. I NEVER over-describe anything. You want condition, playability, etc. to be a pleasant surprise. And, YES, I want the customer to be happy. Makes sense.

50 years ago, I took my first course in salesmanship. One of the basic points the instructor made was NEVER, under any circumstances, sell something on its guarantee. I REPEAT, never sell something on its guarantee. Why? Because it begs the question, "what is wrong with it?" And if the answer is nothing -- why mention the guarantee? Focus on the other merits of the instrument. I grant you maybe I'm too "old school" and times have changed with the Walmart generation of returning anything for any reason. THAT, I strongly disagree with.

In actual practice, one instrument in a 1000 sold gets returned, usually due to nothing more than the customer being too fussy (or his wife saying he can't have it -- which, of course, you will never hear!) I can chalk that up as the cost of doing business and sell it to another (hopefully) more reasonable person. Most customers are great. A very few will abuse a return policy.

Agree wholeheartedly, sell the instrument on its merits and what it can do for the new owner. One can usually pick up straightaway if a buyer is fussy and that is within her or her own right to be so. They want to get the best deal they can. In negotiating a sale I will ask relevant questions about what mandolins they have or have owned, so that I know what they are looking for and whether the deal would be a goer or not. I am not interested in bad karma - life is too short for bad experiences and it can take time getting over a bad experience, be it a purchase or a sale, or just dealing with particular individuals who don't share the same values, ideals, and philosophy.

[Scott Tichenor]

Thanks for all the great input. I do realize that i made an error in titling my string. It should have been "purchasing through the Cafe classifieds" as I know the transaction doesn't pass through the Cafe. Again, thanks for all the comments and I now think I will be very comfortable buying an instrument on here.

You were fine. Thread got totally derailed from your original post and in retrospect and for convenience I'm happy to call it my fault. Most of what has transpired since doesn't have much to do with your original question.

My point was there have been procedures in place for years that protect buyers and sellers. Whatever buyers and sellers agree in private is up to them, but they need to live with it and our policies still apply. When asked privately for advice we will state a seller that won't extend a period of evaluation should be avoided. Our call. You do what you wish with your own sales. We attempt to protect everyone as much as possible but you can't protect people from their own mistakes and decisions or dealing with sellers only looking out for themselves. Lot of things stated in this thread that have no basis in actual operations of the Classifieds. Read the guidelines. If in doubt, ask me. I'm not difficult to get ahold of.

Those wishing to continue their arguments please use the PM feature and contact those you wish to argue with face to face.