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Thread: Band too busy?

  1. #1
    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Band too busy?

    For the past year I've been playing with a fun young band. Lots of great quirky originals some of which could grow legs. We've been getting busier in the local dive bar scene and now we're beginning to wonder how many gigs is too many. Our 26 yo lead singer pumps a lot of energy into his songs and after a couple of weeks of multiple 3 hour gigs his voice is beginning to show the strain. Plus we all sing a lot and I'm getting old. Obviously we want to be more selective in the future and play the higher end venues and some festivals but that has been a tough nut to crack and we need gig money for studio time. But we dont want to over do and burn out. So my question for those who sing and gig out a lot, how many 3 hour gigs in what amount of time is reasonable and what is too much? We are also sharing more gigs with other bands to lessen the strain of the 3 hours but that becomes a whole 'nother bag of worms. I know other bands that limit the number of live shows and concentrate on practice and studio but I guess they subsidize the music themselves and we dont have that option. But we want to maintain energy and vocal health. So how much gigging out can you do before it takes a toll?
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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    wow. We do 2x45min sets mostly. Now & again, that's 2x60mins. 3hrs would kill my voice and my energy levels, I'm 46 if that helps...
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Around here is you do less than 4sets it's not a bar gig. They also only pay dinner and a beer and whatever you can get in the tip jar.

    For anything over 2 sets its now officially a job and I don't work for free so that auto trims those bar gigs. There is also the fact if you are playing to much you don't usually get those more exclusive gigs because people can see you any time. So it is a fine balance.

    The one good thing about long 3sets+ if done sporadically is they do build endurance but every week also starts getting injuries. And when you blow a tendon(been there) and have to play through it, you don't just rest for a couple of days and then are good to go. It can become serious and chronic. We acoustic musicians have to work a lot harder than electric players.

    My sweet spot because I'm not attracted to playing out is one gig a month, preferably the first Fri or Sat of the month. Folks just got paid and want to have fun. Then we have plenty of time to work on new stuff, record and all the other stuff that needs to be done with a built in goal of the gig next month. But that's just me.

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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    I burned out gigging years ago playing bass fulltime.

    I always thought having someone else to handle all the equipment/lifting might make it more palatible

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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    I would suggest your singer find a voice coach to help also.

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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    I'm sure this answer will be quite different for everyone, and the key is finding what works for you. I'm very lucky that most of my bandmates and I have similar goals...I think that's what it's about, finding people who have similar goals, defining those goals, and making sure they're good goals for you, that they're manageable with your lifestyle, inspire you, attainable, etc.

    My band only does about 2 gigs monthly. We all have lives outside of our band...I'm a competitive runner and own a coaching business, the banjo player is a tennis pro, and our dobro player travels with work. Most of us have kids, etc. We have a few bandmates who have more time, but anytime we start getting too many gigs lined up the strain affects our attitudes, etc. We know WHO we are and what the band is. We all want to progress and we're working REALLY hard at getting better, but we know that too many gigs aren't helpful right now. We typically turn down at least one per week, and try to keep wedding gigs out of the picture. We have a bandmate who wants to play out more, and it would be great, we just don't have the time right now, so we usually play on average a 2 hour gig monthly and a 4 hour gig monthly... This varies monthly of course... like we have two gigs next week and we're playing a few festivals this summer, but that's not the norm.
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Used to play bars, but stopped doing it: mutual disenchantment -- the bars started doing DJ's and karaoke, and I got tired of coming home at 2 a.m. on a work night, smelling like an uncleaned ashtray (this was the '80's), and having to put the PA away. Still play very frequently, about 200 gigs per year, but generally one-hour solo jobs, seniors' residences, libraries, private parties, historical societies, that kinda stuff.

    But you want to play the bar scene, and three sets was the norm when I played, and is still, you say. You don't mention a conflict with day jobs, so are you doing music full-time? If so, you have to gig frequently to support a band.

    On the other hand, fatigue, hoarseness, and such things will reduce your stage appeal and will put strains on the continued intra-band relationships. I'd try to play maybe two gigs a week. If voices are suffering, do a full audit of your sound system; you can be loud without singing loud. Have good monitor set-up so you can hear yourselves. You can convey as much "energy" with a whisper as with a shout, if you have proper amplification and vocal technique. A voice coach for the lead singer -- even a single visit to a pro vocal trainer -- can make 100% difference.

    Evaluate your overall techniques -- arrangements, instrumentation, repertoire, dynamics -- with a view toward reducing strain. What's the basis of your appeal to audiences and bookers: is it stage presence, good original material, tight arrangements, instrumental virtuosity? Can you hold on to that appeal, while adjusting the rest of your approach to reduce that strain?

    It's not unusual for me to play four or five gigs, usually one-hour, in a week, two per day sometimes. So I'm singing frequently, but I don't depend on projecting "energy" to reach an audience. Bar jobs are another animal entirely, and you have to provide what the audience and the club owner expects and wants. How often you play is one variable, and how you play is another.
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Last week I did 4 gigs (none were bar gigs) between 2 bands. Each gig was 3 sets so a lot of material to cover. I will be 63 and seem to have enough energy to continue. I guess it's all up to what you are comfortable with.
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    I am like Jim, played 5 1/2 hours on Tues. at two gigs. Used to play like 200 bar gigs a year. Diaphragm singing is the only way to save your voice. When I played solo I would play six nights a week and my voice was stronger on the last night than the first. The diaphragm is a muscle and the more you exercise it the stronger it gets. I am 65 by the way and play as often as I can, tho these days I am in several musical groups and I sing less. Boat cruise tonight, so easy to get lost looking at the Mississippi while playing, these tough gigs are so wonderful.
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    So how much gigging out can you do before it takes a toll?
    Great great question. I deal with this kind of question in other contexts all the time. It seems the question really is, "are we doing too much? Are we expecting too much from ourselves?" In other words, if I give in to the fatigue I feel already, am I a whimp, or am I already doing what would be expected from Hercules?

    I find also find that fatigue might be managed. A new way of approaching things might allow the same amount of activity with a more reasonable amount of effort. So when is what feels like too much really too much?
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Playing (most) bars is only fun if you are plugged in and playing dance music and you don't care whether anyone can actually hear you or whether they are interested what you are doing. But playing listening music for a crowd that would rather talk is a drag and a waste of time unless the money is fantastic, which is rarely the case at a bar.

    Groom your sound and your act and strive for gigs where people will really appreciate what you are doing.
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    2 weeks ago I did 6x4hr gigs in 4 days. my fingers were worse off than my voice. picking a comfortable singing range and doing some relaxing songs now and then helps. I am in 3rd year of serious gigging again. I did the crap ones and now I turn a lot down. Showing a busy schedule when contacting the better venues I think shows you are doing something right and they try to fit you in. I am doing my first pub in a couple years in August, solo. I was seen at a farmers market

    I work full time as well, though my partner that works my days off is always willing to grab shifts for me to have a night off to gig. Like this Thursday

    when I was young and touring, singing a ton, I was doing sit ups everyday to build the diaphragm muscles, and dips. a good exercise regime really does help. I am 52 now and usually do 2-3 x 4hr gigs a week plus work 4x12hr shifts (any wonder why I am single again? haha)

    A friend of mine is doing his first year of markets and said to me the other day he didn't realize how tiring it really was playing and concentrating that long. Because I work graveyards, when I do a gig the day after work I generally only sleep about 3 hrs and go. That is tough
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    I know a lot of bands that play 3-6 nights per week, and on occasion, 2-3 gigs per day. Most of these are 4 hours, with some going overtime (and charged accordingly). They do play with a little less intensity, only have the bare minimum gear, and things like pedal boards, PA gear etc, stay mostly wired up, so setup is quick, sound checks are quick, etc... Song selection is very important. If a song strains a singers voice, it needs to be changed or scratched from the set list. Don't go for that high note. Save that stuff for the recording studio, or a real important gig. There are singing techniques to get most of the intensity, with out the strain. I hear excellent house bands that play almost every night and the vocalists are able to handle it by not pushing too hard, and tailoring songs to their range. It doesn't seem to take away from the show. These are some of the best bands in the area.
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    When I was young and in college (and appropriately '60s foolish!), we full-time students hit our limit playing a now-defunct upstate NY ski area: Friday & Saturday night plus Sunday afternoon. That was playing maybe 15 hours out of a 42-hour span. As it was before our part of the world had figured out light-gauge strings on electrics, it was the guitar-fretting fingers that were shredded. Three weekends was all we could take.
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    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Lots of great insights here. This forum rocks ! Thanks everyone.
    No matter where I go, there I am...Unless I'm running a little late.

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    I hear excellent house bands that play almost every night and the vocalists are able to handle it by not pushing too hard, and tailoring songs to their range. It doesn't seem to take away from the show. These are some of the best bands in the area.
    so being house bands, it's the same PA? So they would have the optimal setup? My struggle is each PA & engineer (could be our own or another as per today and tomorrow) are all different, and rooms are different. I like a high monitor on my vocals as it gives me confidence and i'm a better singer for it, but that leads to the obvious potential issue in the form of the instrument I'm wielding!

    However I didn't explain, that I am very protective of my downtime, so as I don't rely on music for a living I'm thinking my priorities may be different to others posting

    I'm trying to set up a new musical project that will mean less frenetic sets and more songwriterly approach. It'll help a lot for me I think!

    A good voice coach. that's the way forward. Mine's indisposed with v young child at the moment sadly
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Well .... a roadie and sound person .... warm up those vocal chords and fingers .... be selective of your keys to minimize high pitch strain ... spread the lead vocal load as much as possible .... learn how to say no... R/
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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Our band faced this problem, so we raised our price just a little. Of course we lost a few gigs but we still make the same money, and we are much more pumped for our gigs. And not burnt out.

  23. #19

    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Couple thoughts:

    Most bands want a gig. Sounds like you have a "good" problem. I live in a part of the country where I have to drive an hour each way for a gig or to practice with a band.

    The PA was mentioned. I remember in the 80's our singer carried his own microphone, since his voice was his instrument. Back then it was a $300 mic, he seemed to think it brought out more of the qualities he liked. Might be something to look into. Also, throat sprays, teas, etc. OTOH, Welsh singer Tom Jones was criticized early on by vocal coaches for singing from the throat and not the diaphram and 50 years later his voice is still fine......

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    Default Re: Band too busy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    For the past year I've been playing with a fun young band. Lots of great quirky originals some of which could grow legs. We've been getting busier in the local dive bar scene and now we're beginning to wonder how many gigs is too many. Our 26 yo lead singer pumps a lot of energy into his songs and after a couple of weeks of multiple 3 hour gigs his voice is beginning to show the strain. Plus we all sing a lot and I'm getting old. Obviously we want to be more selective in the future and play the higher end venues and some festivals but that has been a tough nut to crack and we need gig money for studio time. But we dont want to over do and burn out. So my question for those who sing and gig out a lot, how many 3 hour gigs in what amount of time is reasonable and what is too much? We are also sharing more gigs with other bands to lessen the strain of the 3 hours but that becomes a whole 'nother bag of worms. I know other bands that limit the number of live shows and concentrate on practice and studio but I guess they subsidize the music themselves and we dont have that option. But we want to maintain energy and vocal health. So how much gigging out can you do before it takes a toll?
    Up until 10 years ago I did 6 nights a week ...4 sets a night and the lion's share of lead vocals . More recently I do 1-3 nights a week solo ( 4 sets ) and a few sessions . I'm 65 . I am a strong believer in the use-it-or-lose-it approach to keeping in shape vocally . If I take a few weeks off its harder to get back in the saddle than to stay in it . Tony Bennett, Glen Campbell , Anne Murray ( I know ..oldies ) have all echoed this observation in various interviews I've read with these terrific vocalists. Yes ....you need sleep , you need to be sure your repertoire is in the right key and you need to take care not to over-rehearse the day of . Also , you need to do some light aerobic exercise ( walking , for instance ) to maintain lung capacity etc. But singing one night a week or a couple nights every other week will not do a voice any harm , used correctly. In fact it will probably not help it or build it up ...but it won't hurt it , in my experience .For a younger guy it should be that much easier to maintain a consistent vocal delivery.

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