Tuning Question

[jstrain]

I recently brought my mando to church youth group, but while in tune correctly, it was pretty out of tune with the guitar that was playing. It sounded awful, so I just gave up rather than give myself a bad name!

How can I go about tuning my mando to the guitar (or vice versa) with the intended result of being able to play both together and have it sound nice.

Keep in mind that I have no real ability to read music or understand theory. I was under the impression that I could tune one of the guitar strings to a string on the mando. If this is the case, I can tune up the mando (using midis on a website) beforehand, and tune the guitar based on that (I know how to tune the guitar using the 5th fret method).

Does that make sense?

[mandodebbie]

If your mando is "properly" in tune, it should sound right with any instrument played. When I joined the local Bluegrass club, I was embarrassed to notice that my instrument was out of tune with itself. (The strings were tuned just fine!) One of the members tried to set the bridge correctly, but because it was such a cheap mando, it was still unplayable with the rest of the group. I soon bought myself a more expensive mando and had the music shop guy set the bridge up. (When fretting the 7th fret on the G, it should sound like the D adjacent string, the D should sound like the adjacent A, the A - the E...well, you get the picture.) He even checked to see how the 12th frets sounded - not too sharp or too flat. Now I can jam with the "big boys and girls" and not be out of tune. I still suck as far as technique in concerned, but I am still a newbie. Hope this helps, jstrain.

[Pedal Steel Mike]

Chances are either you or the guitar player, or both, were not tuned to A 440.

The solution is to first, get yourself an electric tuner. Then get some sort of contact mike or Peizo pickup, to use with it. Then have your guitar player tune up with the same tuner.

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so many guitars, so little time.

[arbarnhart]

Make sure you tune every string to the tuner individually and do it in a cycle over and over until you go all the way through without changes. Recheck after a while. My mando usually takes about 3 cycles. The first time through, each successive string is adding quite a bit of tension which has the effect of relieving tension on the strings already tuned. The second time through I often find strings over a half interval (G measures a slightly too sharp f#, for example) out of tune. It will need tuning after playing a bit, maybe again after a couple of days and then it stays in tune pretty well (a little tweak here and there). Yours may be different of course. As far as bridge adjustment goes, that is usually a tweak that you wouldn't notice in a jam or playing on the first few frets. If the bridge is off .25" (quite a bit) the 7th fret will only be off by about .075" or about 1/8 of an interval; far less than what you get from purposeful bending and more accurate than a lot of fiddlers that sound pretty good.

[jstrain]

I know how to tune the mando with the 7th fret method. #What I was wondering (and I thought I read about how to do this) is if I can tune the guitar based on a certain note on the mando. #I know the guitar was out of tune, so it had to get tuned by ear. #This resulted in a bad sound between the two instruments.

What I am after is, assuming either the mando or the guitar is in tune, is to be able to tune one string on an instrument to a note on the other. #From this point, I can use the 7th fret method on the mando, or the 5th fret method on the guitar. #It just depends on which instrument I use as a baseline.

Not so much how do I physically tune the mando, but how to make sure it matches up with a guitar that may not be tuned exactly. #In this case, it was my guitar as well, but not having a great musical ear, it was not apparent that the two sounded so out of synch until they were both played at the same time. #Any other thoughts?

[250sc]

Buy a tuning machine. There are some out there that have a built in metranome that sell for under $40. This will allow you to be confident that all instruments are tuned to a 'standard' pitch. But this doesn't answer your question about tuning one instrument to the other. "What I was wondering (and I thought I read about how to do this) is if I can tune the guitar based on a certain note on the mando."

If you play the E string on your (in tune) mando the guitar can tune it's high E string an octave lower, then tune all other strings from that 'standard' pitch.

Personally, I think the electronic tuner is the better choice because 1)It is calibrated to an A-440, 2)Everyone can use it, 3)you can tune in situations where there is too much background noise to hear properly, 4)you can get one with a metronome and practicing with a metronome is one of the best (overlooked)ways of developing solid timing.

[adgefan]

What I am after is, assuming either the mando or the guitar is in tune, is to be able to tune one string on an instrument to a note on the other.

The open G on a mandolin is the same as on a guitar, so you can tune your mandolin's 4th string to the guitar's 3rd string.

[arbarnhart]

Keep in mind that the cycling through the strings over and over will still apply if you tune to the guitar. And when you go out of tune, it could be either instrument, but you will have to keep assuming one is right. Obviously this was done for centuries without tuners, but they are cheap, small and so practical.

[stevem]

arbarnhart,
I've never thought to run through the tuning course more than once before, but your explanation about tension changes affecting other strings made tons of sense. Thanks for the tip.

[PaulD]

Many of the electronic tuners on the market also have a "calibrate" button that will recalibrate the tuner to a non-standard pitch. This is so if you're playing with in instrument that is not tuned to standard and can't be (easily) retuned, you can tune the other instruments to it. For example, you wouldn't ask a pianist or harpist to retune if they were a little out... you would retune the guitar and mando to match.

We had to do this with our Celtic band; the whistle player's tin whistle was a little sharp. I couldn't get my tuner to lock on to the whistle, so I would tune my mando's A string by ear and realibrate the tuner to that string. Then we could tune the rest of the mando, the fiddles, and the guitar with the tuner. We just had to make sure we didn't turn it off until the gig was over in case we needed a quick retune on an instrument.

BTW: It never hurts to ask the guitarist (or some other instrumentalist) if you can hear their G, A, E, whatever to see if you're in tune with each other. If you're tuned to A=440, there's nothing wrong with asking them to retune.

Paul Doubek

[Lee]

There is nothing magically perfect about A being at 440Hz. Especially in Europe A is set higher; 442-443Hz or so. Over the centuries A has been creeping upwards.
It is a good skill to learn how to tune to other instruments. Say you're at someones house and you want to play along with a guitar and a piano that has settled. Y'gonna whip out the pitch pipe and tell the piano player to tune up? Plus, sometimes it's not polite to tell the other guy "it's you who are out of tune, buddy".

[arbarnhart]

Stevem,

I am not sure if that is true on higher end mandos or not, but I hope to find out some day. What it means is that my neck does move a little and then a little more as more pressure is added. My current (light) strings require about 18# per string, so when I tune the first string in a new set, that is how much tension is on the neck. When I have tuned all the way across it's more like 150# and the neck has moved a little bit. It finally hits an eqilibrium and stops moving. Something else that I think might be related - if I tune the E first (which you can do with a tuner) I am far more likely to break it while tuning than if I do it last.

Lee957,

I agree it is a good skill and if there is a piano or harp or hammered dulcimer player involved you probably just want to tune to the instrument. But A=440 does seem to be a US standard that the next person walking in will be tuned to. No point in making it personal, just "let's tune up". If someone has a chip on their shoulder about tuning, jamming is probably not going to be much fun anyway.

[250sc]

I was at a jam where there was a mando player who was way out of tune with the rest of us. Thinking I'd help him out I asked if he would like to use my tuner. He answered "No, I don't use those things."

A purist I guess.

[jstrain]

Thanks for all the info. Adgefan's response was what I was looking for. I knew I had read something like that awhile ago, but since I never play my guitar and mando at the same time, I hadn't used the knowledge and hence forgot it. I do plan to pick up a tuner at some point, but I was looking for a quick way to at least make sure that both instruments are in tune with each other, if not with an established standard.

[8ch(pl)]

Years ago I was in a church Bluegrass group.I was not too experienced, and the other 3 guys were far better. All of them had a "good ear" and did not use tuners.. I had one,I have always relied on electronic tuners. Shortly thereafter, they all had one too. That was the only influence I had on the group.