Weber Red River?

[Bill Kammerzell]

Saw a Weber Red River, F Mandolin yesterday at Old Hippies. I can only speak for me. When I saw it, held it, played it, it knew what it was to love a work of artfully formed wood. Anyway, $7499.00? I never saw one, even in a picture. Anyone else have any information? I know Weber shows a MSRP of $8999.00. Thanks.

[multidon]

I believe they are pretty much the same specs as their Fern, but with a one piece quilted maple back instead of two piece flame. It is similar in some ways to the Black Ice, in so far as being a coordinated aesthetic package of features. Besides the one piece quilted back, they have a stunning highly polished red sunburst and multiply binding with tortoise to the outside edge. I have seen pictures online of F and A styles, and even octaves offered with this package. Judging by the pictures, they are stunning in the looks department. Whether the tone floats your boat, that is up to you, but never have I played a Weber with bad tone. They are not all the same though. I have played quite a few, and they are always at least pretty good, and sometimes outstanding. You have to judge them on a case by case basis. If it sounds as good as it looks, and you have a spare 7500, go for it.

[Billy Packard]

This is a Weber "share"!
I have a Fern dated 2007 that I got new at Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz, CA. I burned through the stock frets and started shopping around the bay area for a stainless fret job. Minimum cost would be $550.00! So I called Sound To Earth who still owned the business. I was quoted $250.00 even with the stainless steel. Once Bruce Weber had the mando I talked with him on the phone about how the Fern seemed very heavy to me with the sound dampened somewhat. Weber told me he was experimenting with plate graduation at the time he made this instrument. He offered to re-graduate the top and bottom plates which also involved refinishing the mando since he removed wood from the outside of the mando without disassembling it. Along the way he pointed out the top plate is Cedar which was harvested some 80 -100 years ago with very tight grain. When I got it back it was like night and day. It's been my main player for nearly 4 years. It is remarkably full voiced, loud with a wonderful dynamic range.

[Bill Kammerzell]

I believe they are pretty much the same specs as their Fern, but with a one piece quilted maple back instead of two piece flame. It is similar in some ways to the Black Ice, in so far as being a coordinated aesthetic package of features. Besides the one piece quilted back, they have a stunning highly polished red sunburst and multiply binding with tortoise to the outside edge. I have seen pictures online of F and A styles, and even octaves offered with this package. Judging by the pictures, they are stunning in the looks department. Whether the tone floats your boat, that is up to you, but never have I played a Weber with bad tone. They are not all the same though. I have played quite a few, and they are always at least pretty good, and sometimes outstanding. You have to judge them on a case by case basis. If it sounds as good as it looks, and you have a spare 7500, go for it.

I went back, and talked to the manager about how much wiggle room they had. If I can shave some cash off I will. Couldn't decide right then so they're going to get back to me. I asked about a purchase over the phone with a card and having it shipped, as we're leaving Friday morning, and the manager said yes, they could do that. So, we'll see. Even the wife said go for it.

[Bill Kammerzell]

This is a Weber "share"!
I have a Fern dated 2007 that I got new at Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz, CA. I burned through the stock frets and started shopping around the bay area for a stainless fret job. Minimum cost would be $550.00! So I called Sound To Earth who still owned the business. I was quoted $250.00 even with the stainless steel. Once Bruce Weber had the mando I talked with him on the phone about how the Fern seemed very heavy to me with the sound dampened somewhat. Weber told me he was experimenting with plate graduation at the time he made this instrument. He offered to re-graduate the top and bottom plates which also involved refinishing the mando since he removed wood from the outside of the mando without disassembling it. Along the way he pointed out the top plate is Cedar which was harvested some 80 -100 years ago with very tight grain. When I got it back it was like night and day. It's been my main player for nearly 4 years. It is remarkably full voiced, loud with a wonderful dynamic range.

This was as perfectly balanced in my grubby hands as any mandolin I had ever held. Tone, volume, the way it rang, just gave me chills. It sounded just as good as it looked. My wife was setting a little bit away from my and she said the light hitting off the back had a sort of hologram effect.

[multidon]

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. A very well done super glossy finish really makes that quilting pop and it's almost 3D. I had a Les Paul with a top that had that effect. Loved to look but sold it as I don't play electric guitar much anymore.

It's kind of incredible that Two Old Hippies is discounting it at all. Being the owners of Weber I would expect them to charge full MSRP. My guess, maybe it's NOS? Although Weber dealers are free to discount if they wish. 20 percent is pretty common. I have seen discounts as high as 40 percent. The instrument market seems a bit soft to me right now. If that instrument has been hanging around a while you may be able to get more off. All you can do is ask.

[DataNick]

willkamm,

$7500 duckets is a lot to throw around when you can acquire other makes/models in the same price range or even cheaper (Collings MF, Gibson F5G, Stiver F) and a host of A and F models used from the likes of Heiden, Kimble, Red Diamond, etc.

Just make sure it really tickles your fancy, cause if not, you won't be able to sell it for that much. In today's market, as a private seller you would be fortunate to get $4500 for it, just do an advanced search on the classifieds with keyword "Weber" and you'll see what I mean...YMMV

[multidon]

What Nick is saying is absolutely true. 7500 puts you in mandolin heaven with a veritable plethora of choices from well known and respected makers. But I would like to point out that, since Nick points out the substantial hit you would take in depreciation on a resale, you would take a similar hit on just about any instrument you would buy. Hardly anybody recoups what they spend on a new instrument. About the only brand in this price range that has a chance of holding close to its new value would be Gibson. When to go up into the 25,000 dollar range, Dudenbostel for example, you have a chance of recouping a substantial part of what you paid. But even Gibson and Dudes depreciate some. I am always amazed when I see someone trying to get all their money back on an instrument they bought new. Why should I give somebody the same money for a used instrument that I could buy new? Because it's "played in" and has "mojo"?

Buying instruments is kind of like falling in love. Some guys date hundreds of girls before they find "the one", others marry their first girlfriend. But regardless, when you fall in love, you know it. You just have to decide if this is what happened to you with the Red River.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. A very well done super glossy finish really makes that quilting pop and it's almost 3D. I had a Les Paul with a top that had that effect. Loved to look but sold it as I don't play electric guitar much anymore.

It's kind of incredible that Two Old Hippies is discounting it at all. Being the owners of Weber I would expect them to charge full MSRP. My guess, maybe it's NOS? Although Weber dealers are free to discount if they wish. 20 percent is pretty common. I have seen discounts as high as 40 percent. The instrument market seems a bit soft to me right now. If that instrument has been hanging around a while you may be able to get more off. All you can do is ask.

Yes, I did go back today and ask. They did discount it more. I put down a deposit. I'll save even more (sales tax) by buying it over the phone on Tuesday with a credit card. They'll ship. Rather do that, then pay the 9.25% sales tax, plus me driving home to Maryland with it. They'll insure plus ask for signature confirm.

[Bill Kammerzell]

What Nick is saying is absolutely true. 7500 puts you in mandolin heaven with a veritable plethora of choices from well known and respected makers. But I would like to point out that, since Nick points out the substantial hit you would take in depreciation on a resale, you would take a similar hit on just about any instrument you would buy. Hardly anybody recoups what they spend on a new instrument. About the only brand in this price range that has a chance of holding close to its new value would be Gibson. When to go up into the 25,000 dollar range, Dudenbostel for example, you have a chance of recouping a substantial part of what you paid. But even Gibson and Dudes depreciate some. I am always amazed when I see someone trying to get all their money back on an instrument they bought new. Why should I give somebody the same money for a used instrument that I could buy new? Because it's "played in" and has "mojo"?

Buying instruments is kind of like falling in love. Some guys date hundreds of girls before they find "the one", others marry their first girlfriend. But regardless, when you fall in love, you know it. You just have to decide if this is what happened to you with the Red River.

You may be right on the NOS. Don't know, but I didn't see much else discounted that MUCH.

[multidon]

Congratulations! I think you made a rare score. Give us a detailed report with pictures and a sound clip when you have a chance,, if you can.

I would bet money on the discount you got that it is NOS. easy enough to tell. Just look at the serial number. First one or two digits, depending on the year, is the year it was made. Last two digits are the month. The digits in between represent the numerical order it is for that style. For example, 1243502 would be Feb., 2012, 435th instrument of that style.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Congratulations! I think you made a rare score. Give us a detailed report with pictures and a sound clip when you have a chance,, if you can.

I would bet money on the discount you got that it is NOS. easy enough to tell. Just look at the serial number. First one or two digits, depending on the year, is the year it was made. Last two digits are the month. The digits in between represent the numerical order it is for that style. For example, 1243502 would be Feb., 2012, 435th instrument of that style.

I will. I recall it being a 2014.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Congratulations! I think you made a rare score. Give us a detailed report with pictures and a sound clip when you have a chance,, if you can.

I would bet money on the discount you got that it is NOS. easy enough to tell. Just look at the serial number. First one or two digits, depending on the year, is the year it was made. Last two digits are the month. The digits in between represent the numerical order it is for that style. For example, 1243502 would be Feb., 2012, 435th instrument of that style.

Wanted to revive this to update you. Mandolin at Hippies was NOT a Red River. According to the tag on the Mandolin, it was, "The Only Red copy of a River F ever made." They called it the "Scarlett Tide". It was made for the 2014 NAMM show, and after the show put up for sale at Hippies in Nashville. Did not sell at $9199.00 and was reduced to $7499.00. The best I could do was $7199.00.
I thought about it all the way to Blacksburg, VA and ordered it over phone at Hampton inn on July 1st. That also saved me $665.00 sales tax. They will ship it Tuesday. Insured/Signature.
When I compared it to the Red River it is not identical at all. Right now it is indeed one of a kind. Considering a River F generally is $8999.00, I still think it was a good deal.
One of a kind and all. Plus it felt and sounded great. It takes a lot for a mandolin to sound great when I'm holding it. I should have it Friday the 8th. I'll report back with photos. Then get the wife to practice doing a video.

[multidon]

Very confusing, "Red River" as opposed to "A River, that is red". Still you made a great d al in my opinion. Also cool to have something that was made specially for NAMM and truly unique. Does it have the quilted back or flame? One piece or two?

Can't wait to see pictures.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Very confusing, "Red River" as opposed to "A River, that is red". Still you made a great d al in my opinion. Also cool to have something that was made specially for NAMM and truly unique. Does it have the quilted back or flame? One piece or two?

Can't wait to see pictures.

It is the same construction as the River F, "AAA Quilted One Piece Maple Back, Ribs and Neck." Only the color/tone of the finish is different.

[multidon]

I tried really hard to find an on line picture of it. I thought maybe something that singular that was made specially for a NAMM show might have pictures archived somewhere. No luck. I really want to see it!

I know what you mean about Webers being works of art. I get that feeling even from my humble Bitterroots. I feel lucky to own them every time I take them out of their cases.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Trust me. I have looked for pictures too. I will post them likely 24 hours or so after the mandolin arrives. Supposed to be here Thursday the 7th of July. As pretty as this is, it was the sound, the feel of it, the balance of it and the fit in my hands that sold me on it. It was the total package.
I downloaded pictures of the Red River and will post side by side for comparisons sake.
I feel humbled to be able to own it. I am also humbled that I have a spouse who encouraged me to purchase it. What a blessing she has always been.

[Bill Kammerzell]

I tried really hard to find an on line picture of it. I thought maybe something that singular that was made specially for a NAMM show might have pictures archived somewhere. No luck. I really want to see it!

I know what you mean about Webers being works of art. I get that feeling even from my humble Bitterroots. I feel lucky to own them every time I take them out of their cases.

Another update. First I did contact Crystal Weber with the serial number and she told me that it was one of a kind. Of course it is a River F and is constructed as one. Coloring of course is different. I'll post pictures of it and the Red River. 1st six are of "Scarlett" the last four a Red River. you decide.

[multidon]

Main differences I see: the quilt pattern on the Red River is a bit more highly figured, the red part of the finish appears a bit darker (could just be the photos) and the biggest difference, Scarlet seems to sport a three piece laminated neck, while Red River has a one piece neck. Much of the rest appears identical.

She is quite beautiful. Enjoy!

[Bill Kammerzell]

Main differences I see: the quilt pattern on the Red River is a bit more highly figured, the red part of the finish appears a bit darker (could just be the photos) and the biggest difference, Scarlet seems to sport a three piece laminated neck, while Red River has a one piece neck. Much of the rest appears identical.

She is quite beautiful. Enjoy!

Quilt pattern on the backs definitely different.

[Bill Kammerzell]

Main differences I see: the quilt pattern on the Red River is a bit more highly figured, the red part of the finish appears a bit darker (could just be the photos) and the biggest difference, Scarlet seems to sport a three piece laminated neck, while Red River has a one piece neck. Much of the rest appears identical.

She is quite beautiful. Enjoy!

I got the name wrong. "Scarlett Fire." Once I put that in a search, this came up.

January 2015 issue MMR.

http://mmrmagazine.com/fretted/1863-...-mandolin.html

Looks like they also have a Bitterroot and might have a Gallatin designated the same.

[multidon]

Wow! I missed that it has Waverly tuners with ebony buttons. That's a tasty upgrade!

[Dotneck]

I got the name wrong. "Scarlett Fire." Once I put that in a search, this came up.

Scarlet Fire is the name of that color. I just saw the Scarlet Fire Bitterroot a few day ago...I'm kind of attracted to that color. Of course, my first guitar was a red Harmony rocket and I currently have a "Montana Red" Gibson J-200 Jr. I'm a sucker for red instruments.

I like yours...