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Thread: Causes of brutal action at first fret

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    Default Causes of brutal action at first fret

    My new cheap mandocaster requires brutal pressure to get a clean note at the first fret. What are the likeliest causes? Too heavy strings? A low first fret? High nut slots?
    And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Only one: the nut's not set up correctly.

    If the action/setup is that bad then I would worry about the levelness of the frets as well...

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    Registered User Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    I've had the same problem with my Mandobird - if it's just the first fret that's off, then the nut is way too high.

    If it's made of plastic, I'd also recommend replacing it with something better, as well.
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Quote Originally Posted by s1m0n View Post
    My new cheap mandocaster requires brutal pressure to get a clean note at the first fret. What are the likeliest causes? Too heavy strings? A low first fret? High nut slots?
    Member Rob's pdf book about setup had specific rec's (i think .011 inch or so?). That's a great thing to go thru to setup up everything that might be giving you trouble on that caster: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...by-Rob-Meldrum

    if the frets are polished, you can look for high frets, neck twist, hump above neck joint etc visually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzirIfsQPo
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Rarely do I see frets being an issue when you are having to use a lot of pressure to fret a string. It is most likely the nut. Sand a pencil down lengthwise until half the lead is exposed. Lay it flat on the frets and draw a line across the nut while leaving it flat on the frets. The line basically indicates the height of a zero fret. The distance between the bottom of the strings and that line is how much material needs to be removed. If you don't have slotting tools then remove material from the bottom of the nut with sandpaper on a flat surface. Once you lower the action then you will need to go back to the bridge and reset the intonation and/or the string height.

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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Quote Originally Posted by thistle3585 View Post
    Rarely do I see frets being an issue when you are having to use a lot of pressure to fret a string. It is most likely the nut. Sand a pencil down lengthwise until half the lead is exposed. Lay it flat on the frets and draw a line across the nut while leaving it flat on the frets. The line basically indicates the height of a zero fret. The distance between the bottom of the strings and that line is how much material needs to be removed. If you don't have slotting tools then remove material from the bottom of the nut with sandpaper on a flat surface. Once you lower the action then you will need to go back to the bridge and reset the intonation and/or the string height.
    Thank you. Just to double check, the correct depth for a nut slot is flush with the top of the frets? Not higher? Is all the clearance controlled at the bridge, then?
    And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

    C.S. Lewis

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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Not absolutely flush, or you'll get rattle/buzz. The idea of using the pencil to draw a line gives you a datum line to work from, and the slots then need to be about .010 above this line, to give clearance for the strings. The idea of sanding the bottom of the nut on a flat surface is a sound idea if you have no slotting files, but this assumes all the slots are cut to a uniform depth, which may well not be the case in an instrument which seems to have a problem at the nut in the first place.

    If you have not done this sort of work yourself previously then it's probably better to get it done by a repairman or technician. I'd certainly recommend Rob Meldrum's excellent manual if you intend to have a go yourself. At the worst, you'll end up needing a new nut, but you'll have learned a lot about how your mandolin should be set up.
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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kelly View Post
    Not absolutely flush, or you'll get rattle/buzz.
    I'll disagree somewhat because a zero fret is dead level and obviously doesn't buzz (likewise if you capo up). However for a regular nut, there is no way to tell the difference between "dead level" and "too low" so it's best to err on the side of caution. Frank Ford describes the best/easiest way to check your nut action here: http://frets.com/FretsPages/Musician...nutaction.html No special tools, or measuring devices required.

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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    Tavy, you are right, my man. As someone who always builds in zero frets on my instruments, you'd think I would have spotted this. Where there is no zero fret I think we need to err on the side of caution and give that wee bit of clearance.

    Thanks for link to Frank Ford article too.
    I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOldBores

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    Registered User bradlaird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Causes of brutal action at first fret

    s1m0n:

    Here are my thoughts on your puzzles. As a mandolin teacher I have needed to explain this quite a few times. Now, in the age of the internet, I find it easier to create videos to save endless typing and re-typing when I get emails asking similar questions. I hope these are in some way helpful:



    and this one which is a bit more mando-centric:


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