To play double stop or not?

[mobi]

Let's taken an example.

http://www.8notes.com/scores/18279.asp

When I try to play it, I struggle when I exactly follow the notation.

However, if I convert the double notes into single (i.e. playing only the higher notes ignoring the lower ones) I can play the tune far more easily.

I played the full double notes as well as single notes in MuseScore and the output is not that much different.

Of course, the double stops sound better but it seems there is too much work to make it sound only a little better.

Do you guys recommend practicing including double stops or it is only for those with advanced skills?

[Bob Visentin]

What tempo are you playing it at? This is not a fast song.

[Bertram Henze]

I'd try a three-step approach:

1 - play single notes
2 - play only the doublestops that use an open string beside the melody (no occurrence of that in your example)
3 - add other doublestops but don't hold them the whole measure through, just as long as it's convenient to hold

The best thing, however, is to ignore the doublestops found on sheet music and invent easy ones yourself.

[mobi]

play only the doublestops that use an open string beside the melody

I find that option is easier i.e. double stop involving open string

Didn't realize that I can invent double stops

[Tobin]

I agree that some of the double-stops shown in your example are awkward. I wouldn't play it like that either. I do prefer to throw in double-stops wherever possible, but I grab one that's easy to get to. For example, in the third measure they have a 74XX double-stop, which is part of a 7452 or 745X D chop chord shape. But getting to that 74XX double-stop is awkward when coming off the D melody note at the 5th fret of the A string, if you're using normal fingering for it. If it were me, I'd just grab the X45X double-stop at that third measure. Or even the X40X with the open string would work too.

Definitely, try to incorporate double-stops into your playing. Or at least know HOW to do it. It really opens up a lot of options in terms of how you voice the melody. At every quarter note or longer, you have an opportunity to snap to a double-stop, and there are multiple options depending on what's easier versus how you want it to sound.

[farmerjones]

I always ask myself if I'm playing slop or double stops. Usually it's slop. There are some tunes like Down Yonder, constructed around double stops. While many fiddle tunes are a single melody line. Seems like hornpipes more than reels, but have never done a study.

[Denny Gies]

Bertram got it right.....do your own thang.

[UsuallyPickin]

Well ..... double stops provide harmony to the melody and as such enrich a players tone. My guess is that what you have is taken from a fiddle solo and those double stops are easier to reach on the shorter scale of a violin. That being said practice making double stops will all combinations of fingering ie. index middle, index ring , middle pinkie, index pinkie and ring pinkie and eventually you will be glad you did. Any two tones from a chord are a double stop and can be used to emphasize the chord or a coming chord change and can be cross picked to add depth and melodic variation to a solo. R/

[Jim Hudson]

I feel the double stops should't be forced. It's a place where a player's individuality can come through. I play them where it feels good to me, often where there is a melodic whole or half note. Variably, this is also a place where one can put some kind of sixteenth note flourish if you're into giving your audience a lot of notes for there money. But ... "Music happens in the space between the notes" (someone knows who to credit that quote to). Having now spouted pretentious music-speak, one should specifically practice double stops so you know where to go to get them for specific keys, often in ascending or descending patterns, +/- tremolo. Double stops are a place you can go when you've mastered the long fast runs and want to start feeling the music. Among the many great things about playing mando is that you don't have to play full chord triads or quads. You can choose which two notes to play and how to invert them. Make it fun!

[T.D.Nydn]

"double stops are a place you can go when you've mastered the long fast runs and want to start feeling the music"...this is perfectly stated,,with double stops , you have a lot of options like different rhythm and strums, tremolo patterns etc. I use them to break up single note playing, after a while, you can play entire solos in double stops , and then single note playing comes across as kind of weak..

[Tobin]

after a while, you can play entire solos in double stops , and then single note playing comes across as kind of weak..

That can be either a good thing or a bad thing. I totally agree that once you get used to injecting a healthy dose of double-stops into your playing, it's tough to go back to single-note playing. It just sound too "plinky-plinky". And it gets even worse when you take up the fiddle and can really put those double-stops to work with long bows and drones. The sound of double-stops becomes part of what you want to hear. Going back to "plinky-plinky" starts to get boring.

[T.D.Nydn]

Tobin,,man you hit that one on the head,,don't get me started on fiddle double stops,,that gets in your blood and there ain't nothing like it..

[T.D.Nydn]

I have asked myself in the past, what is a mandolin? Although it's fun to make it sound like a banjo (crosspicking),and play fiddle tunes (fiddle),and it's a blast to fly up and down the fingerboard like Al DiMeola(guitar), is this really playing a "mandolin"?..if tobin and Jim hudson are right, and I am from that school, then true mandolin playing is using various tremolo patterns with the use of double stops, in one form or another. The two undisputed masters of the mandolin, Monroe and Calace, both understood this and use this style abundantly in their playing...

[Tobin]

Oh, absolutely. Our Italian bowlback playing friends like to point this out. The tremolo is really the most distinct sound the mandolin has to separate it from other instruments. The classical players capitalized on it. Mandolin orchestras used it too. Bill Monroe knew it and used it well. Every professional player will tell you to work on double-stops and tremolo. It's the "secret sauce" of mandolin playing!

*edit: some folks like to argue that its only purpose is to draw out the length of the note. And while it does that well, it adds another dimension. If I'm honest, my tremolo will never be wonderful since my right wrist has limited movement thanks to a horse accident, surgery, a metal plate, and 11 screws holding it together. Sam Bush managed to overcome a similar injury and can do it well, but he's Sam Bush. I have always struggled with a smooth tremolo. It delights me to no end to hear people execute it well.

[JeffD]

One way of quickly generating a bunch of useful double stops on the fly, if you know a few bluegrass chords, just break them up into two notes on adjacent strings. Each four finger chord gives you three double stops you can use.

If you want to get into double stops in an organized way, one of the best and easiest guides to double stops I have ever found: here

Really worth the trouble to go through. No, really. Café member Pickloser put it together and its brilliant. It has become a resource to fiddle players too, I see, as its linked and archived at some fiddle sites. (Cool that mandolin is back influencing fiddle.)

Double stops, in a way, are more fun than chords. The patterns are infinitely portable up and down and across the neck, and are mostly very easy to finger.

I started as a single note melody guy, coming from woodwinds (much more than a chord guy) and what convinced me to chase after double stops was someone's advice in the form of a question: Every time you play a note, you have three free fingers and three free strings - what could you be doing with them?

With clarinet or oboe you are just one voice in the orchestra. With mandolin you can be the whole orchestra.

[Beanzy]

Jumping back to the question about practicing double stops that are not convenient, as in the example given;
practice the lower voice seperately until your fingers are going there as if it were its own tune.
Then when you add the melody you can make the fingering alterations to that with your newly aquired sense of where the bass support is moving next.
Often we can paint ourselves into a corner by assuming the usual fingering is to be given to the tune, but it can help to shift that so your fingers aren't getting in a tangle. Look to single finger doublestops, rolling fingers between courses and conversely double finger stops which allow one finger to slide between notes on the same course in preperation for the next note.

[JeffD]

Here is a little exercise someone taught me that works on double stops for each note in the major scale. Kind of fun. Once you get the pattern its easy to do as a warm up every time you pick up the instrument. Soon enough it becomes automatic and you reach for those double stops without thinking about it, just in normal play.

[pops1]

I play double stops whenever I can, sometimes I will do the whole tune in double stops, it creates a very nice sound with a lot of power. It is especially nice in a dance situation or jam, but I also use them instead of chopping chords. Double stops are a great tool and worth the effort of mastering.

[JeffD]

Do you guys recommend practicing including double stops or it is only for those with advanced skills?

I would practice the tune with and without. With so you get more fluid with the double stops, and without so you get the tune in your head and can play it with others right away.

Its awkward, but not crazy hard. I would say you might as well work on double stops now. No matter how good you get there are going to be awkward techniques that you might feel unready for. I am not sure I ever feel ready.

[mobi]

I did try to play few double stops (not on the same link as in first post) and indeed they sound richer

So, what is the rule for inventing my own double stops?

Should I try to add one chord note against the melody note?

Say, I am playing a tune in scale of D Major and melody note is A.

So as a double stop, should I add a note (which is easier to play with finger) which is:

1. a chord note of A major?
2. a chord note of D major?
3. or something else?

[JeffD]

I did try to play few double stops (not on the same link as in first post) and indeed they sound richer

So, what is the rule for inventing my own double stops?

Should I try to add one chord note against the melody note?

A note from the chord should work.

If I don't know the chords to the tune, and I am struggling to hear the chords, and I can't cheat the chord off the guitar player, I usually fall back on one of two strategies:

Use a note from the I, IV, or V chord of the key the tune is in.
Use a note from the double stop exercise I posted above.

Nine times out of ten one of these works fine. I am better at hearing the chords than I used to be, so if I am struggling with it, it is likely not a I, IV, or V chord, in which case I the second strategy may work better.

[onassis]

So, what is the rule for inventing my own double stops?

Should I try to add one chord note against the melody note?

That's the simplest way that I know of. As JeffD noted, every 4 finger chord can be sub-divided into 3 double stops by playing each adjacent pair of strings as a double stop. Example - the A "chop" chord 9745 becomes 3 double stops - 97xx, x74x, and xx45, each of which is essentially an A chord. If you familiarize yourself with closed pentatonic scales, it becomes easier to connect these double stops with melodic lines.

[Hany Hayek]

This is from Carlo Munier book Scuola del mandolino part 2. Play down strokes only. This is advanced, so play very slowly.
The fingers that you do not need to lift keep them in place on the fingerboard. Hope this helps.

[JeffD]

There likely are some "rules" but I am more of a mandolin explorer than a rule follower. When I practice tunes and noodle around in the privacy of my living room, I often just try stuff out. Play a tune I know as a single note melody and just try out double stops on the dramatic notes. I might try the two strategies above, I might get lazy and just find an open string next to the note and wack that and see if it fits. Just messing around.

I have to say one of the reasons I am posting a lot in this thread is that when I "discovered" a reasonable approach to portable double stops it was such a revelation to me. Prior to that I really kind of thought I knew my way around, as I could pick out a ton of melodies. All of a sudden, the mandolin became a brand new instrument, seemingly almost totally unexplored. The fun factor doubled or tripled over night.




If it works it works, and if it doesn't its jazz, or fortunate I'm in the privacy of my living room.

[mobi]

OK, to test the logic of inventing double stops, let us consider Amazing Grace.

http://www.music-folk-play-hymns.com...ndolin-tab.pdf

I am now trying to add double stops to it.

I attached a MuseScore file. Did I get it right?

There is an alternate (with double stop) in Banjo Ben Clark website but that one uses too difficult fingerings (and goes beyond 7th fret).