Mando buying guide

[trickymonk]

My wife and will be spending 10 days in Italy (Rome, Florence and Tuscany area, and Venice) towards the end of the month. I would love to pick up a decent bowlback mandolin if one should present itself. I mainly play bluegrass (and love my King Brown F5), but would love to have a bowlback to play around with. I think I can discern a decent F or A style, but I know nothing about the bowlbacks. I've heard there are lots of cheap ones floating around for tourists - and most should be avoided. How should they sound? Play? What should the action be like? Any advice would be most appreciated!

-Jeff

[billkilpatrick]

jeff - i don't know either but i know someone who does. #try these:

http://www.federmandolino.it/inde.html

http://it.geocities.com/marco_onorat...niItaliani.htm

http://www.mandolinoitaliano.com/

bienvenuto! - bill

[vkioulaphides]

Best of luck, trickymonk! Are you looking for a modern or a vintage instrument? That primary choice would help us help you with relevant leads, warnings, etc.

Whatever you do, enjoy Italy!

Buon viaggio!

Victor

[Jim Garber]

I think you also should think about the price range. Take a look at the Eye Candy Bowlback page. A few of us play here Pandinis and he is in Ferrara. He doesn't have a web site but his email is linked to the picture of his mandolin.

Calace, one of the oldest makers still aking, is in Naples, which spounds like it is out of your itinerary.

Jim

[trickymonk]

Thanks everyone. As far as price goes, definitely sub $1000. Since this would actually be my 3rd mandolin, I can't justify more than that. Are there any specific brands to look for? Any to stay away from? $1000 well spent is better than $200 thrown away!

[vkioulaphides]

Lower-end (modern) Calace mandolins (e.g. model Nº 24, Nº 26 and thereabouts) still stand under $1,000. My own "everyday mandolin" is a year-old Nº 26 and I am happy with it, all things considered; I have discussed this instrument at length elsewhere in the Café's "Classical Etc." section. But, as Jim writes, Naples is waaaaaaaaay out of your way. #

A Pandini would set you back some $3,000. I do like them but...

As you write (quite truly!), $200 wasted is, ehm... wasted. Do not buy some glitzy, kitschy "tourist fare" bowlback. $1,000 is a decent amount of money to spend; it may be unwise to try being extra frugal by, e.g. resorting to some cheap, unplayable beast, just for the sake of telling your conscience (or your wife # ) "hey, look, I just saved $XYZ." You simply won't have an enjoyable instrument in your hands, one that justifies the $1,000-XYZ you actually SPENT.

Enjoy whatever instrument you eventually acquire!

[Jim Garber]

I will ask my mando-buddy in Roma and see if he can do anything for you. Perhaps he knows of something. If not, he can prob recommend some good restaurants.

Jim

[trickymonk]

Thanks Jim!

[Eugene]

If you can spare the trip to Naples, you should swing by the Calace shop.

[Bob A]

The only new bowlback I've seen or played is Greek, a little outside your route. For the rest, I have several that I like in your price range; you might keep an eye out in the local shops for the following makers: Luigi Salsedo, Mozzani, Monzino, Ceccherini, De Meglio. (Puglisi is also a maker of quality instruments, but I've not played one).Of course the big names are Calace, Embergher (along with Cerrone & Pecoraro) and the various Vinaccias, but chances are they'll be double or more your maximum. Many instruments made between 1890 and 1930 are available and in good playing condition. If you have web access, by all means post a query and we'll respond.

Action should be about 2mm at the 12th fret. Less is ok, more can be a problem. Check the neck joint - impossible to repair for less than astronomical sums. There will be some degree of top sink, between the bridge and soundhole, more than likely. But if it's stable and there's good action and no buzzing on the higher(12+) frets, it will probably not be a problem. Frets should be in decent shape - check each one, on each course of strings, for buzzing. Sighting down the neck, you don't want to see a sudden divergence or change of angle; the board should be pretty much straight line. Separations between ribs can be repaired more or less easily, if they're not wide or nasty. Repaired top cracks are a non-issue, usually. Many of these instruments have the neck wrapped in rosewood. Looking at the back, you may think the peghead has been grafted onto the neck, but not so - it's just the end of the veneer.

Sound - now there's the thing. These instruments will have a lot more treble than you've ever heard coming from a mandolin. It may shock you at first. The bass will be rather weaker than you're used to. Listen for a decent overalll tone - if the bass is really weak, you might want to find a better example. But again, it all takes some getting used to. Try to play several quality instruments if you can find them in one place; this will give you an idea of what The Sound ought to be.

The best bowlbacks tend to be the lower-end instruments by known makers, with low action and a charming lightness of touch. The sound will be sparkling and rich in high partial overtones. A pointy sort of pick will emphasise that tonal range, and is more appropriate than a Dawg-style. the upper reaches of the e string will be clear and crystal-bright; the bass will not be profound, but will complement the treble; chords should br crisp and bright, and will tend to make you feel happy, without knowing quite why.

With luck, you'll find several instruments that will meet the above criteria, in the range of 4-800 euros, less, if you luck out. Buy the one that you'd really really regret missing, if you didn't get it. Then serenade your wife in the streets at twilight.

[vkioulaphides]

[QUOTE]"Then serenade your wife in the streets at twilight."

Indeed, a most salient bit of advice!

[trickymonk]

Excellent post Bob! Most helpful! Thanks to everyone for their help. Now, does anyone know how to say: "May I play this mandolin?" in Italian (when I'm in the music shops)?

-Jeff

[vkioulaphides]

Posso suonare questo mandolino?

[billkilpatrick]

"sono un americano con molto soldi ..." in certain situations works wonders.

[vkioulaphides]

I guess that's not my style, Bill. I usually elongate my already long, Hellenic visage, expressing preemptive disapproval of the price, as being outrageously high, well BEFORE it is actually quoted.

I would start by practicing saying the word sconto (discount)... I would continue with memorizing a brief phrase in Italian about the lamentable exchange-rate against the Euro. Finally, I would emphasize that I am but a working man, with wife and child(ren), dependent elders, etc., etc., etc.

[billkilpatrick]

very good ... of course you're right ...

i've only had two experiences, trying out instruments in italian music shops; both were in siena and both were not what you would call accommodating. one had a sound proof room - which was good as the kid in it was causing seismic shocks on someone's meter - and the other had a real sour-puss of an owner who didn't seem to give a damn. be sure not to wear anything that might scratch the instrument while you're trying it and hope you (trickymonk) fare better than i.

another thing - italy treats musical instruments as luxury items and you will be hammered with value added tax (IVA) is you don't let them know you're bringing it back to the states.

ciao - bill

[vkioulaphides]

Ha, ha... and I thought that Greek vendors were rather dour! But, of course, I'm a "local", even after a 25-yr absence.

Yes, trickymonk, you MUST dodge the VAT! (The former economist in me fails to see exactly what value was "added", but... )

It is always best to deal with vendors who have a vested interest in selling; some —apparently but still curiously— don't. Hmm...

[billkilpatrick]

while we're at it, here's another infuriating little anomaly for you:

about a year ago i tried to buy some cello pegs from an ebay seller in the states. she wrote back to say that the post office will not accept any musical items from italy - foundry cast bells in particular - and vice versa. i queried this - trying to imagine some american apparatchnik yelling "... and no bells" to whom ever it was drafting the regulation - but she confirmed it with her post office. i don't know if importing a musical instrument into the states falls under similar restrictions but it's not something you want to be hassling over with some petty officious @&#! after a long flight back home.

you'awl have a nice day now, hear ...

[Bob A]

See if you can't get the dealer to give you a paper stating that the instrument is an antique. That way you may avoid being held up at gunpoint by US Customs as they try to collect duty on the instrument. (I've only had this problem with instruments imported from Italy. Germany, Greece, England, Australia all came thru without any nastiness at all). Of course I cannot recommend that you get a second, lowball receipt just in case. As President Nixon said, "That would be Wrong".

[trickymonk]

Thanks guys! This is great advice. I've gone from being halfway interested in finding a mando to being on a mission for one. I only wonder how the store owners will look at me when I start playing Monroe on their mandolins I don't yet know any classical stuff, maybe a little Nickel Creek or Irish tunes would be more acceptable as "test" tunes?

[Jim Garber]

Perhaps some slow waltzes might give you an idea of tone. Chopping does not really work too well on a bowlback.

Jim