string height for emando

[geoffreymbrown]

I bought a used ryder em-24 and am wondering about string height. The action is currently a bit higher than my acoustics which I like moderately low. It's easy enough to change, but I'm wondering what I should shoot for if I want a comfortable playing instrument.

Geoffrey

[Rick Jones]

Hiya, Geoff - long time no talk!

I've got an Eastwood Mandocaster, currently strung as a 4-string. Mine is set about 3/64 at the 12th fret. I am a big-time hater of string buzz, so I go as low as I can without hearing them rattle. That goes for acoustic and electric both.

[geoffreymbrown]

Thanks Rick. I've been dialing down the action and ran into two issues. The first is that the nut is a bit too high on a couple of strings which also causes some intonation issues (Eb on the D string, F on the E string). The second is a bit more of a conundrum -- the E/A bridge (think mandostrat) impacts one of the pickup screws preventing it from being lowered sufficiently. Probably needs a flathead screw (countersunk) -- I might need to seek guidance from Steve Ryder.

All in all, a way better mandolin than the Fender Mandostrat I sold to buy it. Was pleasantly surprised when it came with a nice rectangular case that had not been mentioned in the ad.

Geoffrey

[geoffreymbrown]

Any thoughts on putting in a thin neck shim (1/32 or 1/16 birch ply) ? To get where I want, the action is pretty much bottomed out.
I'm not usually in the habit of disassembling my instruments.

Geoffrey

[Rick Jones]

Any thoughts on putting in a thin neck shim (1/32 or 1/16 birch ply) ? To get where I want, the action is pretty much bottomed out.
I'm not usually in the habit of disassembling my instruments.

Absolutely. That would probably allow you to raise it all back up a bit. It wouldn't take much, either - 1/32 or something like that would probably be perfect. Worst that happens is it is too much/not enough and you have to change it a little, or take it out entirely. One big benefit of a bolt-on neck.

Attention to the nut would help, too, but it requires having the right sized files. When I set nut height, I fret the string between the 2nd and 3rd frets, and look for space under the first fret. I lower it until there is just barely space there - maybe thickness of a business card. You have to go slow, one stroke too many and you've overdone it.

[thistle3585]

I take a pencil and sand it flat along its length then lay it on the frets and slide it side to side. This draws a line on the nut which would represent the height of a zero fret. I then slot the nut down to the line. A little bit of tweaking to even the height out so the tops of the strings are level. Start at the nut then go to the bridge end. This sounds like a situation where you may want to take it to someone that has experience in setups. You are going to have to reset the intonation if you make any adjustments to the bridge or nut. Just realized you are in Bloomington. I'll be at Frank Southern Ice Rink on Sunday to referee if you want to bring it by and I can take a look at it between games.

[EdHanrahan]

Any thoughts on putting in a thin neck shim (1/32 ... birch ply)?

Folks are far too quick to forget that paper & cardboard are simply re-constituted wood and, under the pressure of a bolt-on neck joint, there's hardly any difference. I'd bet that many of those mega-buck 50'-vintage Fenders still have business cards under their bolt-on neck; I KNOW that some of them do!

Somewhere (here on the Café, or Frets.com?), one truly respected luthier endorsed the ease of post-it notes as shims, at least for testing our how much shim is needed.

[geoffreymbrown]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to start with a shim -- I glued up some 1/64 ply in stair steps and will sand that to a wedge. Then we'll see how the clearance works out. I agree that some of what I've read about shims on other sites seems a bit OCD. I have a jig borer which was aligned at the factory (in 1964) with small, thin metal shims to ensure alignment to 0.0001 over the table and it still makes a mighty accurate hole 50 years later. Nevertheless, making a simple wedge didn't seem to be too much work.

BTW even with some height issues (modest) this Ryder is a really lovely mandolin. Terrific build quality and nice balance across the strings (I couldn't say that about the mando strat I had previously). I'm sure the previous owner liked to have his/her strings higher than me. I am having to adjust to wider string spacing -- I can't quite reliably barre two strings with my finger tip like I can on my acoustic mandolin.

Geoffrey

[thistle3585]

I have used a thin piece of binding, maybe .020 thick, placed in the very back of the neck pocket. That thin of a piece will make a big difference. A wedge isn't necessary.

[geoffreymbrown]

Thanks for the input -- I'll start with a thin piece as you suggest. That's so quick and easy (and also reversible).

Geoffrey

[geoffreymbrown]

I did as suggested by Andrew Jerman and inserted a thin strip in the neck (I used 1/64 birch ply since that's what I had). That was sufficient to lower the action to where I want it, although a slightly thicker shim would have given a bit more head room. Not sure the nut issues are sufficient to mess with now -- I need to play it for a while and see how well I like it the way it is. Thanks for all the input. This em-24 is a really nice mandolin and beautifully made. Great tone across all four strings.

Thanks for all the input !

Geoffrey

[Tom Wright]

Acquire some sized nut files. My experience with Ryder is he will supply an instrument with a slightly high nut, which gives you room to adjust. If you go too far, it is easy to loosen the nut, after scoring the lacquer with exacto knife, by tapping it gently. Then you can shim with paper.

Do check the neck bow ("relief"). If you tighten the truss rod it will pull your action down if there is some bowing now.

I like a low nut for good intonation in the low frets and high action for dynamic range. I also like some height above the pickup, by lowering them, because I find the alnico pole pieces make a bit of "splat" when very close on the fatter strings. I also like the pickup slanted a fair amount so the high strings are close and the low strings far, so I can have a fat tone setting on the amp without the bottom being too boomy. Finally, the pickups can be tweaked for individual pole heights if you're ambitious and, by careful pressing with pliers, (pickguard off). I push the A way down and have the E high.

[geoffreymbrown]

Thanks Tom -- I have a buddy with Nut files who's going to help me out. Then I'll see how it feels with higher action as you suggest. BTW -- I've really enjoyed your clips with your Ryder 5-string.

Geoffrey

[mandroid]

Godin A8 I slipped a flat washer (As a Shim) in the neck pocket so they were around each screw,
Then snugged them Down ..

[pops1]

I like to use a wedge to support the entire neck in the cavity as opposed to just a fraction of the neck in the body.