Jerusalem Ridge

[Chris Burt]

I recently learned Jerusalem Ridge from a transcription of the Kenny Baker/Bill Monroe recording. Love playing that tune. After learning it, I discovered a TEF transcription entitled JerusalemRidge_Monroe_mando.tef. This version has interesting B and C parts, somewhat different than the Baker B and C parts. They play a little more appropriate for mandolin as opposed to violin. I'd love to hear Monroe playing Jerusalem Ridge in a pre Baker recording, or even a later one, without Baker. Can anyone point me to such a resource?

Thanks,

Chris

[luckylarue]

I thought Kenny Baker wrote "Jerusalem Ridge". If so, there probably isn't a pre-Baker version.

[Peter Hackman]

I'm pretty sure Monroe worked out this composition in
close collaboration with Baker, but I strongly doubt
it's Baker's tune. Why, for instance, would he choose
a title so intimately connected with Monroe's
background, or, vice versa, why would Monroe tag
such a title onto another's composition?

Monroe recorded this piece in 1975, and it's Baker all the way. It's on the Weary Traveler album.
Baker re-recorded it in 1976 with Monroe guesting
on mandolin. To be frank Monroe's solo doesn't add
much to the performance except that odd D major
chord.

[David M.]

the liner notes to the cd I have w/it on there credits Monroe as the writer. I noticed that Bob Black played banjo on that cut. He lives about 45 min. from me and I've played in a few sessions with him. Amazing banjo picker.

Kenny Baker is the man!

[Chris Burt]

Richard D. Smith's book on Monroe's life, "Can't You Hear Me Calling" credits Monroe with this tune--an interesting book. I'll try to track down Weary Traveler album. I'm tryng to reconcile the interesting B and C parts in the JerusalemRidge_Monroe_mando.tef I stumbled across on the interenet sometime last year or the year before. Can't remembert where I picked up this TEF file.

[J. Mark Lane]

Isn't it common knowledge that Monroe's name is on many songs he didn't write?

I wouldn't want to stir up any trouble or anything. I was just wondering.

[mrbook]

I think Monroe had a sketchy idea of the tune and played it for Baker. I think Kenny Baker then fashioned it into the classic it is, while Monroe got the writer credit. A lot of band leaders took or shared writer credits with their band members, and Monroe seems to have "suggested" a few pieces to people who did more of the work. I think it took Peter Rowen some time and effort to get credit for his part in writing "The Walls of Time" after Monroe sang the tune to him.

[J. Mark Lane]

Jeez, I heard Rowan sang the tune to Bill. Oh, well. It's all just music, right? <g>

[Moose]

Hey Mark! - That's how I heard it too!!??

[J. Mark Lane]

Yeah. #Ya reckon Bill and Pete voted the same?

[Moose]

naaaa... - I don't think soooo... ; but.., ya' never know, eh!? - hee... hee...

[J. Mark Lane]

Right. Ya never know. Maybe that's the way it's supposed to be....

[MWM]

Re: Walls of Time ... According to Richard Smith, Monroe said to Peter Rowan, "Remember these words, Pete: The wind is Blowin' across the mountain. And on the valley way below." Peter instantly responded, "It sweeps the grave of my darlin'. When I die that's where I want to go." Rowan later had to remind Monroe that the song was co-written. I don't believe they ever recorded it together.

Although Monroe is credited as writer, Jerusalem Ridge sure sounds like Baker wrote it. His fiddle defined it's sound. It's reminiscent of 2 other Baker authored tunes, Long Cold Winter and Bluegrass in the Backwoods. Both are in minor keys and on Aubrey Haney's Bluegrass Fiddle Album. BTW - there are recordings of Jerusalem Ridge by the Tony Rice Unit, Grisman, Norman Blake and Mark O'Connor. My favorite remains the one on Kenny Baker Plays Bill Monroe.

[luckylarue]

Sounds like we're talking about two different tunes. Rowan collaborated on "Walls of Time" and Baker collaborated on "J. Ridge". I also remember reading in Richard Smith's book about Bill put his name to tunes on which others had more input.

[J. Mark Lane]

I heard a rumor that the Dixie Chicks actually wrote Jerusalem Ridge. It was secretly handed off to Peter Rowan, who introduced three (but only three) of the notes, in proper sequence, to Kenny Baker. Baker then hummed those three notes one day in front of Mr. Bill, who said, "Hey, isn't that a Communist song!?" The rest is history.

[Moose]

Yeah Mark! - That fits!?# - maybe some sort of subtle Middle East(i.e. Israeli/Palestinian) battle-song! Wonder which side! - this JR thing is really gett'n interesting. Mmmmm.. Dixie Chicks..., Middle East Conflict.., Bush.. I really tried to fathom/understand the double-meaning "Salty Dog" thing ; Remember that!!??##

[luckylarue]

Beautiful !! !!

I'll talk to Scott about initiating a separate "The Chicks and who they influenced" category.

[Peter Hackman]

Isn't it common knowledge that Monroe's name is on many songs he didn't write?

I wouldn't want to stir up any trouble or anything. I was just wondering.

Yes, in many ways. For instance, in the early days of his
career it was not uncommon for a band leader
to appropriate the work of his sidemen, or at least
get co-writer credit.
I believe all the songs
that Lester Flatt wrote for the BG boys
credited Monroe as co-writer.

Another practice
in those days was buying and selling songs.
Monroe bought Goodbye Old Pal from Cliff Carlisle
for 15 dollars, he was one of many artists who bought
songs from Arthur Q Smith in Knoxville, and I'm
pretty sure he bought Footprints in the Snow from
some obscure hillbilly group.

As regards his instrumentals the process is accounted for
in Smith's bio. He was no fiddler, and his own approach
to fiddles tunes was sketchy, to say the least.
So it's reasonable to assume that he conceived
many of his fiddle tunes, presented them in outline
to his fiddler, who then added detail and ornamentation.

Most of his mandolin numbers are his own, I suppose,
although a few of them were written off other songs.
Pike County Breakdown was based on Sweet Betsy from
Pike, and Watson Blues is really You'll Find her
Name Written There. He wrote at least one song
for the banjo, Crossing the Cumberlands, and
the story behind that tune, including his collaboration
with Lamar Grier, is given in the liner notes
to American Traveler (a County CD of instrumentals).

[Garrett]

If you want to hear a "Pre" Kenny Baker version listen to John Hartford, Mike Seeger and Dave Grisman do it as an old time tune on Retrograss!

[cbogle]

Peter--
Some great info in your post, however, I'll disagree just a bit on "You'll Find Her Name Written There" vs. "Watson Blues". Although similar in tempo and construction (as written), the former has no "B" part. The "B" part of "Watson Blues" definitely distinguishes itself and establishes it as a seperate tune.

[GBG]

Gold Rush=Poor Ellen Smith per Sam Bush, 1969.

[GTison]

You guys need to sharpen up on this stuff. The info's out there. Baker said it was Monroes tune in a bluegrass unlimited interview. Tho to my way of thinking I'm not sure if Baker hadn't been there it would have turned out the same. I've heard that about 'watson blues' ...melody is a little different. But you can name lots of fiddle tunes that have the same chord progression, can't you? Another, Eboneezer Scrooge and Dangerfield, similar but not the same. Listen to some Jimmy Martin tunes if you want to hear repetition; 'skip,hop,wobble. freeborn man, they're like 'dog house blues' or numerous others. there's lot's of repetition in music. I once played ' Kentucky Mandolin' in church. (I knowbut they asked for it) Afterward a music teacher came up and asked where I learned "king of the Fairies' , check this out http://www.dnaco.net/~mobrien/irishp...s/kingfair.mid .
Did Monroe know that tune?? Maybe but it's still different enough to me.

I'd like to know where the 2nd loar is!

[Fretbear]

That King of the Fairies sounds more like Scully's Reel than Kentucky Mandolin....

[J. Mark Lane]

I'd like to know where the 2nd loar is!

Elvis has it.

[evanreilly]

You guys!!!
Exercise some research & read the sources... the Bear Family collections have very well written and annotated commentary about most of Monroe's recordings.
I have copied, cut & pasted Monroe's description of his writing of 'Jerusalem Ridge' before.....