A Heartfelt Thank You

[crawdad]

Today, I strung up my first F5, in the white. The experience of hearing it in my hands was tremendous. While it has its cosmetic flaws, the sound is so much better than what I have been playing. I have learned a lot on the quest so far.

Mainly, I wanted to send a big thanks to everyone who has given me advice and helped me at every turn. Without your assistance, I would have never got this far. So, from one novice builder to so many others with more experience--thank you so much for your help and patience. Its been an incredible journey so far. Now, on to the finishing process.

You all are an inspiration!

[Scotti Adams]

..I have said many a time that this is a great place....many nice, knowledgeable people.Nice thing for you to do Crawdad...Im sure they all appreciate it...and they know who they are hey...let us see your new baby.

[John Zimm]

That's awesome Crawdad. Congratulations, and I hope you have many hours of good playing on your new F5. Will you post pictures? I am curious to see how it turned out.

-John.

[crawdad]

I'll post some pics when I get it finished...but be warned--its got its flaws!

[Brookside]

Hey crawdad, I'm right behind you with the completion of my first. Mine has it's flaws too. There were some where I worked to correct them entirely, others I felt were there to stay and thus I moved on. Better to learn from them and get on with another instrument rather than spend endless hours trying to fix something that is there to stay. Still, I'm very proud of my first effort as I'm sure you are too. I can't wait to see pictures of yours. I'll soon be posting mine as well, complete with flaws.

Congratulations!

[Flowerpot]

Good deal, crawdad. Glad to hear it's together now. Congratulations!

I'm right with you too -- strung up #1 in the white a few days ago and it didn't implode. But I don't like the sound -- too tinny, even though the recurve is fairly thin -- thinning the top seems to be improving it, so all is not lost.

I bet I can out-flaw both you and Brookside with my #1; can you beat asymmetrical F-holes, wood putty, and sanding through the white part of laminated binding? I may chicken out on the pics, unless you need somebody to "lower the bar" for fit and finish. The only thing that came out just right was the neck angle, and it's dead on with what I calculated. And the frets, which I'm fairly experienced at, are nice. But there are a LOT of things I don't intend to repeat next time, which is the whole point of #1 I guess.

[tope]

Grats Crawdad an getting the first one to the white stage. Nice feeling eh. Hurts when you do it but scew ups do teach you repair work. And we all do em.

Good for all of you for doing your first mando.

[Brookside]

I'd bet pound for pound I've got you beat on wood putty.

The three of us should start our own company and sell mandolins to small children and blind people.

[Yonkle]

Hey Crawdad: I just strung my up in the white too, pretty exciting, and nerve racking at the same time. Congrats!!
Mine sounded good too, however I was not pleased with the string spacing so I made a new nut today. Thanks for your help too, you have helped me a lot!! #JD

[PickinFool]

Well, other than my neck angle problem, my A model is "near" flawless. # Uh, by the way, what brand of wood putty do you all recommend?

[mandoryan]

Hey Yonkle,
#How's that one sound? If I remember correctly you were going to thin the top more? Did you do that? Are you more pleased with the sound of this one than the past ones. The last one I built, which was number 5 for me, I thinned the top to #about .9 in the recurve and .190 in the center. It was some tight grained wood though but it is a serious tone monster. I am very pleased with it. Don't be afraid to go thinner than what Siminoff suggests. Just don't go to extremes... # Good luck on it and it looks great from what I saw. Definetely a keeper...

[crawdad]

All those wood putty jokes have me feeling a little better guys! I got to the point where I realized that #1 was not going to be flawless about a month ago. I have a list of mistakes not to repeat, if possible. For me, some of this undertanding acquired is after the fact--I had to get through the forest to see the trees again, but its all good. When I look back to when I started, I can see I've learned a ton--yet more to learn.

I'll tell you what, though--its a wonderful feeling to actually string it up and play, knowing this instrument in hand was made by the same hands that play it. Relief--the top didn't split and the neck was set right. Those were two of my biggest concerns. Whats so cool is that I will have an instrument I can take out and play; and if I get tired of it, no problem--I'll just build more. I actually want to build an A next, and then tackle the F5 again to see if I can get it closer to "really right".

Until then, I'll just keep lying to myself that wood putty is part of the secret recipe for Loar tone!

[Yonkle]

Yes Crawdaddy this one is LOUD, and I am thinning the top down, been doing it about three days,and I am having trouble Typing because I have BANDAIDS on my fingertips. I've sanded tonight until they started to bleed on the tips. Ouch, now they are throbing.
I cut a new nut and installed it too, did'nt like my spacing job on the other. It came out with a few good raps with a hammer, made a clean break. I think I will ready by Sunday to do the first Yellow Stain. Keep me posted on yours JD

[crawdad]

Yonkie--OUCH! You are the model of dedication, for sure! I hope that in time I can approach your craftsmanship. You are an inspiration.

Tonight I've been staining my once pristine white mandolin. I'll tell ya, staining is what separates the men from the boys.

Signed,

A boy!

[Luthier]

Ah, Grasshopper,
You have begun your journey.....LOL
I wish you many more rewards and may your "stringing up" never come to an end in this lifetime or the next. #You are good person and will be a fine Luthier!!

Don

(You Go Boy)

[MarkG]

The last one I built, which was number 5 for me, I thinned the top to about .9 in the recurve and 1.9 in the center. It was some tight grained wood though but it is a serious tone monster. I am very pleased with it. Don't be afraid to go thinner than what Siminoff suggests. Just don't go to extremes...

This sounds pretty extreme to me! Are you sure these measurements are correct? A top that is 0.9mm at the recurve and 1.9mm at the center is surely way too thin. Even if you doubled the thickness to 1.8mm at the recurve and 3.8 in the center this is still a bit thin in my book.

[Flowerpot]

"Typing because I have BANDAIDS on my fingertips. I've sanded tonight until they started to bleed on the tips. Ouch, now they are throbing."

And you thought the reddish sunburst models were planned to look that way; now you know what really happened. Yonkle, if you started a thread of "post a picture of your bleeding fingers", maybe somebody would step forward to buy you a random orbital palm sander before the whole mandolin turns red. Don't hurt yourself, dude!

[John Zimm]

Maybe Yonkle has hit on an interesting way to get that sunburst look.

-John.

[mandoryan]

I'm sorry, I meant roughly .9 inches in the recurve and .190 inches in the center. This was some very stiff wood and I'm glad I got it that thin because it has a huge sound. The top is perfectly stable and it's been strung up with J75's for about 5 months. It has a little more pronounced arch to the top than normal, but due to this, the sound is more woody and big. Here is a quote from the MIMF from Mario Proulx talking about thickness in tops...

Mario Proulx - 02:51pm Jul 2, 2001
MIMForum Staff

Keep the recurve around .100"-.110" or so, but the center can go much lighter than Siminoff's plans; .180" is a starting point, and you can take it from there.

[mandoryan]

I think what I have gained from my experience in building these suckers, is that, the back is the most crucial component to the tone that you want. I have found that thinning the recurve on the back to .75-.8 in. to .175 in. in the center works well for me. Some people may not feel comfortable going this thin, but I have overbuilt my previous mandos and don't plan to make the same mistake again. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

[Gail Hester]

I'll tell ya, staining is what separates the men from the boys.
[/QUOTE]

crawdad, don't forget the women! Good luck with the stain.
-gail

[crawdad]

mandoryan--I'm definitely going thinner on my next back. I figure its not going to be subject to the stress that a top would be, so might as well make it respond as much as it can. That makes sense to me. As far as the tops go, I'm just going to use my builders sense (what little I have) and determine how thin to go based on the piece of wood I have to work with.

Luthier--Yeah--I am hooked. I can't wait to finish this one and get on to another! I have found that building instruments provides a needed balance to my life--I don't think I want to quit.

Yonkie--How are the fingers today? Also, what are you using for your yellow stain? I tried some amber, but it was just another shade of brown. My mandolin looks rather reminiscent of Bill Monroe's at this point. Maybe thats a good thing--I can tell people, "this is Bill Monroes lost Loar!"

Oh yeah--another thing that separates the men from the boys is scraping the binding. Did I ever mention how much I hate binding, LOL!

[Flowerpot]

Hey, crawdad, don't do like me and go too thin. Yep, I was sanding down some more, mostly is the recurve, and during stringing it up, the top failed. Just today. It looked like the force of the strings pulling on the tailpiece was bending the rim and compressing the top, and down by the tailpiece the top folded like an accordian. I kept bringing up the string tension toward standard pitch -- nothing to loose here, and I was curious -- and the top split parallel to the glue joint, starting at the left side of the tail block and going up. At least I had a good glue joint.

So #1 is dead now! I'm dis-assembling it now, going to make a new top... I'll be done when you are finishing your #3, most likely. Arrrgh.
Be careful out there!

[Jim Hilburn]

Flowerpot, I had that same failure on one of my earliest and I've heard of it happening to some Loars. It's a good idea to make a little larger tailblock and leave a little extra wood in the string tension line, even up at the front. Another thing is don't have too steep of an arch climbing from the recurve at the tail to the bridge. It should rise gradually or it can collapse when combined with a thickness that's pushing the envelope.

[Brookside]

I just strung up #1 tonight for the first time. My brothers and father and myself have all been anticipating this moment for months. We've always been a family of big talkers who never actually do anything. The thought of any one of us building a mandolin has been a source of great humor throughout this process. I decided to go for broke and string it up for the first time in front of all of them.

I did a rush job on the set-up right there on the living room floor. Got her in tune and handed her to my father. (I can't play a note myself, just getting ready to start learning) I didn't think I was going to leave there with it tonight. He just played and played with a big smile plastered on his face. It was a priceless moment I'll never forget.

I have lots more work to do. I still have some final sanding, fret leveling, staining/finishing, and the set-up needs to be done much better but I was very pleased with the initial tone. If I wasn't hooked before, I sure am now.